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Forest Hill Station Subway
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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #101
15-11-2012 09:37 PM

Reinstating the steep Victorian slope hardly make the subway accessible to everyone...unless, Perryman, you are offering to become a modern day St Christopher and will be there 24/7 to push people's wheelchairs for them and give those unable to walk on steep slopes piggybacks up and down?

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #102
15-11-2012 09:42 PM

Perryman - you suggest a lift as an option. Where would the lift be? How would it work? I can't quite picture it.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,504
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #103
16-11-2012 11:35 AM

I think we all know a lift isnt going to happen, although not entirely impossible, I would guess that it would push the project somewhat over budget. And the delays and inconvenience while it was installed, im not sure how some would cope Rolleyes

Walking through it last night, I was shocked at the difference to the lighting of the place a simple lick of paint can have, and thats only the murals painted over mainly so far.

As for the kerb style guttering going in, if thats an indicator of the level of workmanship to expect, oh dear! lol

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #104
16-11-2012 11:56 AM

There is absolutely no excuse for shoddy workmanship (I thought the debacle with the jet washers might be a sign of things to come). It doesn't have to be that way. The major refurbishment of Sydenham Road that is going on at the moment is being done to a really high standard. It is possible to do public works well. Sad

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #105
16-11-2012 01:12 PM

The Victorian slope was not meant to be steep though.

I can only think that the slope started as soon as it passed under the track, but the WHSmith extension obviously would block that today.
Alternatively the slope ran up the service road and back, which I guess is not going to be happening either.

So that leaves a lift. A third of the stairs (vertical) would need to be cut away, creating a vertical drop to place a small lift. Simple.

I've bumped and carried prams up and down those stairs and helped many others more times than I care to remember and I loathe them. It is a very busy pedestrian intersection of Perry Vale, (the extension of) Waldram Pk Rd, London Rd, Devonshire Rd and Dartmouth Rd and it needs to be accessible.

The 10min industrial detour around the outside of the ex coal yard, ex tram terminal to the South circular underpass etc etc is unreasonable, as many are finding out today.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #106
16-11-2012 01:36 PM

Oh good grief, it's not unreasonable or unfair or inaccessible, it's just a bit inconvenient. You wouldn't think that walk so bad if the subway didn't exist, you'd just get on with it. It's a fact of life in London that we have to work our way around the railway at times. Get over it. And yes, I've bumped buggies up and down those stairs plenty of times.

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michael


Posts: 3,210
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #107
16-11-2012 02:24 PM

To put the temporary detour in context, I would point to a previous thread http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php...457&page=1 where I wanted a new escape route from Taymount Rise. In that case predictions of crimes meant that nobody was willing to find a solution to a 20 minute detour. In this case the inconvenience is temporary, the benefits are massive, the detour is small and not during the rush hour at the moment, and people over 60 have a second option via the platforms.

I think the change in routine is probably more upsetting for most people than any real hardship.

Perryman do you have any examples of lifts rising out of staircases elsewhere? I suspect they could be very dangerous.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,504
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #108
16-11-2012 02:24 PM

Thumbsup to rshdunlop
Sums it up for me really.

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #109
16-11-2012 04:18 PM

what rhsdunlop said...

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #110
16-11-2012 05:15 PM

I don't use the underpass, but I am pleased that it is being improved.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #111
16-11-2012 05:31 PM

Good grief - it is like living in the dark ages around here.
rshdunlop, you really really disappoint me.

Michael, this is a not a cut through in a remote part of SE23 - I suggest you take a visit to see how many people normally come through the underpass - you could help those with buggies. You would also see the steps up to platform 2.

To be clear, Tomangel is angry at being being put out, and I agree this is unreasonable, as it is only short term. But those with young children and without cars are being seriously inconvenienced maybe twice a day everyday by these steps. It's 2012 not 1950. (If only it was 1850.)

And if 350m is not such a big deal, why was it unacceptable for FH Pools to move to Willow Way? Would it be fine for the station to relocate to Clyde Vale Opp the pools? It is only 350m.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #112
16-11-2012 05:36 PM

Perryman - show me an example of a feasible alternative to the steps and I'll cede the case. You keep saying 'Put in a lift'. Find me an example of such a lift in a public subway - I've never seen one and can't see how it would be practical, but if you know of one then post a link to it here.

If there IS no reasonable alternative to the stairs, then we have to live with them.

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #113
16-11-2012 06:25 PM

I have a young child and I don't feel even remotely inconvenienced by having to go the long way round when I have her in the buggy. It really isn't that big a deal and certainly not one that warrants the expense of installing (and maintaining!) a lift

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #114
16-11-2012 06:37 PM

No, it's not the 1950s, when people were made of stronger stuff and didn't have the sense of entitlement they have today.

Remember the old-fashioned style of pram? My mother used to push me around in one and she would walk all the way to Penge and back. She didn't have the luxury of being able to get on a bus with it, and I doubt she could have navigated the subway either. I'll ask her. Although it may trigger her on the subject of modern mothers who complain that there's not enough room on buses for more than two giant buggies...

We're just talking a few weeks of inconvenience. And it's not 350m: it's the difference between the alternative (eg going through the station) and walking around the long way. As for the comparison with moving the pools, that would have been permanent, not temporary.

And if you can't handle this amount of inconvenience then just be thankful you don't use any train services that have long term disruption during improvement works. Off-peak Thameslink services have been affected for YEARS.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #115
16-11-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:
In that case predictions of crimes meant that nobody was willing to find a solution to a 20 minute detour


A bike? Smile

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #116
16-11-2012 07:31 PM

Oh, and don't have a go at using having to transport your kids as an excuse...

This post was last modified: 16-11-2012 07:32 PM by IWereAbsolutelyFuming.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #117
17-11-2012 06:41 PM

I'm not an expert on disability options - and I can't think of anywhere where they have installed a double set of stairs in such a major public through fare, so this is not going to be a common problem.

However lifts are pretty common these days - network rail rightfully installed 2 of them in the station and I bet they only get used a few times an hour.
It has probably been forced on them and other companies by some pesky european rule or other, but surely we all agree it is the civilized thing to do?

The other benefit is getting a few more customers into the FH shops.
Once mums, the old and disabled get in their cars or on a bus instead, they are heading for the bigger shopping areas and are lost.

I seem to be a lone voice here, which probably says more about my ability of persuasion than anything else. I am not deterred!

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rbmartin


Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #118
18-11-2012 01:51 PM

The lifts and footbridge were installed at FH station as part of Network Rail's Access for All funding, which allows disabled passengers as well as parents with pushchairs to access the platforms without using the footbridge stairs.

However it didn't change the issue with wheelchair passengers being able to step on the train without the use of a ramp which LO are excellent in getting a member of staff to help with this. The platforms won't be changed either due to the fact that different type of trains are used on the Southern services, so we won't see a Canada Water situation where the train and platform are on the same level.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #119
18-11-2012 02:39 PM

There's not enough room for a lift where the current set of stairs are. It's not just the width of the doors you need to find, you need to reinforce a lift shaft and find room for the winching mechanism - and build a housing for it. Most small 'wheelchair' lifts are indoor hoists which aren't likely to be robust enough for outdoor use.

If we were sending people a mile out of their way or over dual carriage-ways, then you might be able to justify the cost of building one (which might include a compulsory purchase order to get the land required) and get public support. But, a 350m walk with no need to cross roads is no more taxing that the status quo. And given people's biggest complaints were about the lighting and cleanliness rather than the access, those are what are being resolved.

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rbmartin


Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #120
19-11-2012 10:52 PM

I noticed the subway was open today. Didn't go down and have a look, but could see it was painted white, which made it look a lot brighter.

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