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Closure of London Bridge (upper station) in 2015
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Loncdl


Posts: 55
Joined: May 2008
Post: #21
10-04-2012 09:47 PM

Oh bloody hell. And there was me relieved that the 4 years of disruption and closures at Blackfriars to where I commute in the morning was finally coming to an end... Makes you want to move out before 2015...

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #22
10-04-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:
So let me get this right. Southern will still run to London Bridge and terminate there. Where has Southeastern gone, are they terminating at London Bridge also? They are closing the line in between LB - WE & CX totally? What about Cannon Street trains?
Will there be a service between CS & CX?


Yes, so an alternative for Southeastern/Southern customers will probably be free use of the District/Circle between Cannon St and Embankment.

This has happened when weekend engineering works have closed the Charing Cross line.

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Sibelius


Posts: 63
Joined: Aug 2011
Post: #23
11-04-2012 09:28 AM

Isn't it that Southeastern will go to CS but Southern passengers will have to get out at London Bridge and get tubes from there? We can't get on a CS train from LB can we?

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Satchers


Posts: 262
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #24
12-04-2012 07:05 PM

This proposal is a shame and will be quite negative for south east London Generally as it definitely reduced options for people to interchange. It is this flexibility in the system to use different routes that works very well at present.

The interchange between the trains at London Bridge and the Underground is long, painful and best avoided, which is what is so good about being able to cross to platform 6 and get a train to Waterloo East/Charring Cross.

However, I do find i use the London Bridge to Waterloo East/Charring Cross line less getting back home now the ELL is in place and generally if I'm in that area will get the Jubille Line to Canader Water and then ELL back to FH.

Michael - is there any point lobbying against this change or is it already 'decided'?

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Satchers


Posts: 262
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #25
12-04-2012 07:07 PM

More importantly (almost), does this mean that if I want to get a train out to Kent, Brighton or sussex that I will have to go to Charring Cross on the tube from London Bridge? Now that is a nightmare journey!

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #26
15-04-2012 10:02 PM

Quote:
More importantly (almost), does this mean that if I want to get a train out to Kent, Brighton or sussex that I will have to go to Charring Cross on the tube from London Bridge? Now that is a nightmare journey!


No, one stop on the Jubilee line to Southwark which connects to the Waterloo East platforms for Southeastern mainline services to Kent and East Sussex. Thameslink won't be stopping at LB at all during the main works, so not affected.

For those of you who'll use Thameslink north of St. Pancras, the tickets I believe already allow cross London transfer on the tube between London Bridge and King's Cross St. Pancras stations.

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michael


Posts: 3,228
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #27
23-10-2012 02:09 PM

After recently asking questions of various people in the rail industry it was indicated to me that tickets would be accepted on 'all valid routes', and this would include use of ELL and Jubilee to replace the service between Forest Hill (via London Bridge) and Waterloo East/Charing Cross.

If this is the case then it will mean I will get to work in Waterloo quicker than I do at present going 'over the top', but without paying any extra. Of course this is the only reasonable thing for the train companies to do, but it will mean that the overground services will get a little busier, even if we do get 5 carriage trains on ELL as planned for 2014/2015.

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #28
23-10-2012 03:12 PM

That's good news, I'll probably go to Cannon Street and use the District & Circle for my journey, although I fear I'll be contacting the Oyster helpline every week to claim that I was travelling on NR rather than the combined TfL/NR journey.

This post was last modified: 23-10-2012 03:13 PM by rbmartin.

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Erekose


Posts: 557
Joined: May 2010
Post: #29
25-10-2012 09:04 PM

Judging by the reply I received to a recent enquiry regarding longer trains on the Overground they are still lobbying the government for funds.
I was also informed that as the trains now run at what is considered almost maximum capacity throught the New cross gate / Forest Hill section there is little chance of them slipping in the odd extra rush hour train to West Croydon to alleviate the increasing rush hour overcrowding. Victim of its own success or what?

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 502
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #30
25-10-2012 09:21 PM

Yes, I've noticed that the trains twixt Canada Water and FH are getting more and more crowded.
Worst of all is the service after 8pm. Since I often finish work at gone 9pm, reaching Canada water any time after 9.30pm I sometimes have to wait as long as 13 minutes to get a train going beyond New Cross.
Its very irritating, especially when the New Cross trains are always empty.
The best thing about the Olympics was the increased number of evening through trains.

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #31
25-10-2012 09:29 PM

We should see 5 car ELL trains by 2015, although the problem with getting the trains to run later is due to Network Rail possession of the track from New Cross Gate onwards, although the late evening service is disgraceful and the last through train from Canada Water at 11.56pm is too early.

Last year I went for a night out at the O2 and ended up having to travel to London Bridge to get the final Southern train.

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Erekose


Posts: 557
Joined: May 2010
Post: #32
25-10-2012 10:02 PM

I started out with a suggestion that as the New cross trains are always empty in comparison they could be reduced in frequency but it was answered by the statement that the NXG / FH section runs at capacity anyway so there is little / no scope there. Lets hope they secure the funding for an extra carriage which will be an improvement.
Having waited 25 + years for the ELL extension it really hasn't made for a much more pleasant journey during the rush hour.....unless you cast you mind back to the late 90's horrors of Connex South Central and then suddenly it seems like a vision of heaven.

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #33
25-10-2012 10:09 PM

What the ELL has done is move all those commuters off the Southern trains onto shorter trains which have the capacity to have more people standing up than before.

The shorter wait for trains at FH has also been useful, although as we've seen despite the ELL extension is that there's always room for improvement.

I remember the days of 4 trains per hour badly spaced out, 30 min wait for trains on Sundays and the like.

The only thing I miss from the 'old' days is was the through daytime service to Charing Cross which I think was axed in 1995/6?

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lacb


Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #34
25-10-2012 11:45 PM

I also miss the CX service.

5 car ELL trains *could* come as soon as 2nd quarter 2014:
Overground Electrification and Longer Trains

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InTheForest


Posts: 46
Joined: Feb 2012
Post: #35
29-11-2012 12:28 AM

But one extra car really isn't much. I can't see that it will take all the people who will be pushed off the Southern LB train. The Overground is already horribly overcrowded in the morning rush hour with people at Brockley and NXG left on platforms - we need the 5th carriage just for them.

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rbmartin


Posts: 866
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #36
29-11-2012 12:37 AM

The ELL is a victim of it's own success, cheaper PAYG fares into the West End and East London, combined with an easier interchange to the tube and quicker journeys for some has led to this situation.

However an extra car will at least try and solve some of the capacity issues in the peak. We also need 12 car peak services on Southern to alleviate pressure on the ELL.

I don't know if the New Cross branch trains are heavily used in the peak, but it may be worth for those locals to use that service instead of crowding already packed trains at New Cross Gate during the morning peak?

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ambient


Posts: 85
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #37
29-11-2012 11:34 AM

Quote:
I don't know if the New Cross branch trains are heavily used in the peak, but it may be worth for those locals to use that service instead of crowding already packed trains at New Cross Gate during the morning peak?


I've used the trains from New Cross during the morning rush on the odd occasion. They generally leave New Cross fairly empty, with maybe 20% of the seats occupied. However, they then fill up significantly at Surrey Quays, for whose residents they must be a god-send, because they have virtually no chance anymore of boarding the trains from Crystal Palace/West Croydon.

Things at Surrey Quays may actually get worse when the extension to Clapham Junction opens, and that may lead to more people trying to get on our trains. This is because there are currently 2 trains at about 8:20 and 8:35 that arrive at Surrey Quays empty (straight from the depot) to help reduce the general overcrowding on the other trains. But those slots are actually 2 of the 4 slots per hour that will start at Clapham Junction from 9th Dec - so the chances are those too will be rammed full when they arrive at Surrey Quays in the very near future.

As others have said, the ELL is a victim of its own success. It's been a brilliant addition to the area, and bizarrely, getting a train to London Bridge now is usually a relatively pleasant experience. I cannot actually believe how we all managed on the 6-8 trains an hour we had before. However, it needs to be expanded up to 8 carriages not 5 and/or it needs to run more frequently, and it needs to run later into the evenings (the Olympics was brilliant for the later trains). And whoever designed a 4 carriage platform at Canada Water (admittedly 10 years before the ELL) needs to hang their heads in shame!

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