Forest Hill would be alive with chickens if it wasn't for the Horniman Museum!

I heard that they were going to employ bouncers dressed in overstuffed walrus costumes to control the numbers but they struggled to keep count with their flippers

The discussion is probably academic now as the decision has probably been made but I dont agree that its best to go for a larger number rather than to risk shutting people out. I dont understand the logic of that from an event management point of view and from a consequential point of view it is totally unacceptable as it doesnt constitute any sensible or responsible planning at all. There is only so much capacity that the Horniman can take. If there is proper planning and number crunching then there should be little risk of more people arriving than anticipated.Your argument seems to be contradictory in parts therefore.

If people are 'shut out' then they should be able to spend their money and time elsewhere in Forest Hill at some of recently opened and excellent eateries and coffee shops and pubs. I also dont understand why the risk to local streets should be greater if people are shut out- it didnt matter at the last Jerk event- everyone got in but there were problems anyway. And please, lets not labour under the eco assumption that people will come on public transport and leave their cars behind; that rarely happens in practice and despite the great links we are still a suburban station. And the chances are that the transport will be disrupted anyway due to engineering works.

The licensing committee met last night and listened for a good long period to all of the arguments before retiring to consider their verdict.

The result appeared to be a good compromise for all parties in which the application was granted subject to the following:

a maximum of 10,000 people

any licensed event in the Gardens (as distinct from the buildings) must finish by 2100

a maximum of 10 major events per annum.

The application makes clear that a major event is any event of over 5000 or less if major funfair rides, likelihood of major impact on local residents / businesses or significant noise. It was clarified that 'an event' meant 'one day'. In other words a two week festival was not 'One event'. Presumably any event involving amplified sound would be a major event using this definition, a distinction which will be of great importance to nearby residents.

The new licence comes into effect immediately which means that any major event from now on must be cleared through the ESAG group which can impose any additional conditions deemed necessary.

This post was last modified: 26-04-2012 09:43 AM by andrewr.

Thanks AndrewR.

What is the ESAG?

That does sound like a reasonable compromise.

Was there any discussion about how they count numbers?

ESAG - I think stands for 'Event Safety Advisory Group'. It is a joint group involving the Council and Police representatives. It approves Event Management Plans for major events and its powers extend to considering the impact on the wider area and mitigating actions as well as the events themselves.

There was a great deal of comment on numbers from all parties and it was clear that there was very little hard information on how many people had actually attended events in the past with very differing figures being given to different people at different times. It was claimed by the Museum that there were people counters on all entrances to the Gardens although none of the objectors seemed to be aware of them. It was also stated that there could be up to 2000 people in the Museum at busy times, a figure which seems remarkably high.

The limitation to 10,000 people was stated to have been made because of the uncertainty about numbers in the past.

Many of the objectors were concerned about the impact of car parking and traffic on the area. The Council's licencing officer said that whether the impact of car parking was a valid consideration in granting the licence was a grey area in law. However, it, and the associated traffic, will clearly be a valid consideration for ESAG.

Incidentally, although the licence has been granted subject to the previously mentioned conditions, there is an opportunity for the Horniman (or the objectors) to appeal - I think they said in the next 28 days.

1) If someone sits in the Horniman and bangs a drum and more than 15 people gather round to listen, will this constitute a major event and thus count towards the 10 available per year?

2) It sounds like the Horniman committee have come out with a sensible verdict and compromise, god bless them all.

3) Where can I get tickets for the Horniman all night rave that will be attended by less than 10,000 people and will finish at 21:00?

Sounds like a sensible outcome for all involved with the possible exception of the Tesco on London Road which will have competition from the cafe for booze sales.

Brian, I dont know if you went to the Chicken event, but if you did, it sounds like you had a very good time!

Your Reverence

Sorry missed the poultry event. To be honest not a fan of large crowds.

I think you are correct , it is a compromise, but as usual compromises satisfy no body.

I still maintain The Horniman Gardens are not suitable for any large events and indeed Dulwich Park would be much better.

The Horniman has much better transport options than Dulwich Park if you're travelling to get to it.

The 9pm deadline does mean that there's no more Screen on the Green type events which seems a shame. The Horniman was better suited than Dulwich Park for that because of the slope (almost like an auditorium) although with the new education centre, that might not have been an option anyhow.

I think it's about time Hornimans started giveing a little bit back to to luckless local residents,instead of takeing all the time! tiggywinkle(mrs) ps a buggy free zone in the cafe would be a start!!

Perhaps their taxidermy experts could help look after some of our hedgehog-related forum trolls.

The sub-editor in the electronic article applied a fairly subdued headline to the News Shopper piece on this web-page:

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/lewish...demonium_/

However the Lewisham and Catford print edition of Wed 26 April 2012 had a more unrestrained headline on Page 1 :-

"Don't Jerk Us Around"

and a strap line that says:-

"Museum's plans to extend alcohol licence anger people who remember "pandemonium" at chicken festival."

Gutsy stuff - you could not make it up.

I think that falls into the category of "harsh, but fair". LOL

This post was last modified: 29-04-2012 02:20 PM by lacb.

I think the agreement is fair and what many of us on here have been arguing as reasonable for some time.

Went up there today when the rain stopped. The gardens are looking good with the exception of the fake dry stone wall effect as you approach the bandstand area- anyone else think that- looks more at home in a Billericay that it does at the Horniman. Anyone else think that?