I think there is a bit of over reaction going on here.

I for one would delighted if the museum cafe sold more interesting drinks. Their coffee is pants!

The museum shop already sells adult items like art pieces. It would be rather surprising if they also started selling Fosters to go along side this. Now I don't know what they propose to sell but let's not get carried away here until we do.

Having a licence to cover more than the number of people than you propose catering for seems like good planning to me. This means that you don't have to individually count the number of people in the park at any one time - this would be a massive expense, probably prohibitive for most events. But again, I don't know the exact plans and though I would be surprised at a heavy metal concert (LOL) it would be good to find out more before criticising the idea out of hand.

What does TLERA have to say about this?

I didn't realise the Horniman was just for families? I think it would be good if they did cater a bit more for adults who might like a glass of wine or beer in the pleasant surroundings of the cafe and conservatory.

I think they do serve wine at their evening musical events anyway, thinking about it. As someone's already mentioned, people buy alcohol elsewhere and take it into the park.

On the other hand, because the grounds aren't that huge (and now there's less space with new buildings added)..and the park backs on to peoples' houses and gardens, I don't actually think it's suitable for very large events where it's likely crowds are going to arrive within a small timeframe. It's totally different when you have people drifting in and out of the park throughout a normal day.

So I think an alcohol licence could work for specific smaller events at night - but I'm not convinced about large daytime events.

This post was last modified: 04-04-2012 01:47 PM by seeformiles.

So they're thinking of organising a few events a year and look at the over-reaction!
At last, a bit of fun for the area! Drunk people enjoying themselves in Forest Hill - shocking stuff!
With the improved transport links, won't most people be coming to FH on the train or bus?
The Horniman is not predominantly for families I might add. Would you be saying this is if you were not the proud mother of a couple of kids? I doubt it...

Fish Face, I think you'll find it's the numbers and the late hours that people object to - not so much the alcohol (although why a museum/park needs to sell alcohol should be questioned anyway - do people need alcohol to enjoy themselves in a park?). With regards to the public transport factor, you'd like to think people wouldnt need to drive, but that never is the case. So if it's just for a few events a year - why does the licence need to cover 7 days a week to 11.30pm? Will these events be private functions - weddings? or bands? or what? Will the park be illuminated, policed? how will the crowds be controlled? Lots of unanswered questions make this quite worrying. Loud noise from the park is acceptable during the summer when something is happening at the bandstand for a few hours - but to carry this on into the late evening would be a disturbance. It is really the wrong venue for events of 15,000, to 11.30pm with booze and all the problems that go with it.

I think what everyone is missing here is difficulties in license applications. The amount off money you have to pay for licenses and the hoops you have to jump is ridiculous since the rules changed. This happened back when opening hours were extended.
So what venues do now is get a license that is all encompassing, to cover all eventualities.
The Jerk Cook off was a couple of years ago, personally I had a great day out, but unfortunately a small minority spoiled it for local residents. Has there been anything similar since? Horniman are saying they will do 3 events a year on the large scale, that is once every 4 months. I mean come on, is that going to be that inconvenient, or horrific?
We live in zone 3 of one of the big cities of the world, you are 15 mins from the centre of that city, we have it pretty good, so a few really busy days in a year is not the end of the world.

I don't buy that - if it really was only 15 minutes to the centre of London that would be fantastic - but last time I checked, it took me over an hour to get there by train! If the area wasnt already a quiet residential location, fair enough - but that's just not the case. It's inappropriate to host large events of 15,000 late at night, with no parking, adequate management or supervision. 4 times a year or even once will be horrible enough for local people, especially if the Jerk Cook off is an example of how it will be managed.

Well sorry it takes you an hour to get into the centre. The trains should only take 15 mins to London Bridge.
But that's going off thread.
I get the feeling that everyone thinks the events they put on will be the size of the last Jerk Cook off. That was a one off, and they haven't done anything since, what was it 2 or 3 years ago?
Who says there wont be management of the next event, who says the next event might only attract a very civilised crowd. Think Marble Hill Park in south west London. We should welcome events into the area, not every weekend but it is nice to have something different to go to that is only a stroll up the hill, instead of paying travel to go somewhere else. It's nice to invite friends over to say there is something interesting happening in the park in our area, an event.
Lets give them a chance and hope for a good day, instead of just seeing disaster.

A few busy days a year certainly isn't the end of the world but they shouldn't need a permanent licence for 14999 people 52 weeks of the year to do that very thing. I am still waiting for someone to tell
Me how they propose to keep track of the numbers if it's not controlled at the gate.

I think we could hit the 15000 by organising the first FOREST HILL PRIDE, I just recently came out to family and friends that I am actually living in Forest Hill and not East Dulwich and feel liberated. What do you think

Stefan - there are enough gay people in Forest Hill to constitute it having its own pride festival! Im surprised that a gay bar/or at least a gay night - hasn't opened up here yet!

I think you should look at stefan's post again

This post was last modified: 05-04-2012 10:13 AM by Londondrz.

LOL, Gay pride would be cool too

Stefan, I'll have you know that I'm the only gay in the village. Please move elsewhere.

I like your thinking, BMqpr.

Which has got me thinking about what I would like as an event.

I noticed a while back that Annie Lennox’s name is on the wall as you glide in through the sliding doors of the Horniman Museum. Annie Lennox is a patron. Alongside, Sting, Mick Jagger, Tom Jones and Rolf Harris amongst many others. Here is the official list of Patrons and Benefactors etc of The Horniman Museum and Gardens.

Here is my fantasy event…

Annie Lennox doing an acoustic set in the gardens on a warm summer’s evening. I’m in the VIP Champagne tent. Naturally. Outside of the VIP Champagne tent, tickets are limited to 5,000 of the great unwashed. I’d treat myself to a £100 ticket for something so exclusive.

That’d be a real little money spinner for The Horniman.

Looking at their statement of accounts from last year I’d say that my fantasy one off event could almost generate about 10% of their grant-in-aid income.

Continuing with my fantasy…Sting would join Annie on-stage for a song or two towards the end of the evening. Something with a soft Spanish guitar accompaniment. Then somebody would spot Rolf Harris with me in the VIP Champagne test, with his wobble board, and the crowd would erupt in spontaneous applause to encourage him up on stage for “Tie Me Kangaroo Down, Sport”. Magic. Pure SE23 magic.

BTW, wasn’t there a wallaby in the animal enclosure during the 1990’s?

Ah, I got caught out with Stefan’s marvellous wording.

Phew! Still the only gay in the village then, thank goodness.

stop that talk or the thread will get moved in the trading section lol

Haha..Cellar Door, I think there are a fair few more than one gay in this village.. its practically Vauxhall-on-Hill

Roz/Gingernuts, what could the good people at Horniman towers do for you to not object to this application? Or would you object no matter what they did as a matter of principle?

Reverand
I am surprised you have time to post at your busiest time of the year.

I wonder why you need alcohol to hold an event

It's not unusual for a museum to have this sort of alchohol licence - I am not sure what the hoo-haa is?

I really doubt they will be going down the cheap and cheerful lager route. They will be wanting to bring in extra income, and as Government is no longer guaranteeing funding for national museums after 2015, they are under even more pressure (you may remember discussions on this forum about the future of the Horniman following withdrawal of Gvt funding see http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3715). DCMS at the time said museums are the responsibility of their local Council and community. We are that community!
So the museum governing body would be looking for other ways to bring in income. They will be looking to attract visitors who will spend more per head. I would say this application is a wise move on their part. Maybe the residents who object so much to the museum selling alcohol and running occasional large events would like to do some fundraising for the museum instead (apologies if you already do) although an occasional craft fair, worthy as it is, is really not going to fill up those coffers.

I used to work at one of the larger art museums in the centre of London. The cafe and restaurant were a huge source of income; they sold alchohol and there was never a problem with drunken behaviour, apart from the staff ;-) (that was a joke, before anyone gets panicked about hordes of drunken Horniman staff wandering the gardens at night).
It was mainly purchased by people having a glass of wine with their lunch. Come on, if someone wants to get drunk do you really think they will buy an overpriced bottle of wine from a museum cafe, or go down the road to Tesco where they can get a bottle of cheap plonk for a fraction of the price?

The other big source of income for museums is sponsors - who usually expect as part of their sponsorship package the option to run well-catered functions, which would have to include alcohol, and might run late, but would certainly not be particularly noisy or disturb residents.

I like living in Forest Hill because its not too suburban; it is leafy with nice houses, and lots of families and friendly people, yet the proximity to the centre of London gives it a bit of an edge and makes me feel like haven't disappeared into the sticks. However I sometimes get the feeling reading SE23.com that some of the residents wish us to become more suburban, not less....

:-)