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New Lamp Posts/Street Lights
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mgmonkey


Posts: 96
Joined: May 2009
Post: #1
05-03-2012 06:25 PM

Hello

Does anyone know which department I need to contact at Lewisham Council regarding the new lamp post that appear to be planned for much of the postcode, (you may have seen yellow spray painted numbers along your paths)?

One has appeared outside our place today and because we do not yet have a fence/wall for our front garden, the person erecting the post seems to have decided to put it about 8 inches inside our garden, which will cause a problem when we do finally put a fence up.

Cheers!

This post was last modified: 05-03-2012 06:26 PM by mgmonkey.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #2
06-03-2012 09:10 AM

This issue arose at last week's Bellingham Ward Assembly.

What most of us had assumed was a localised set of lighting and street furniture renewals, was in fact presented to us at the meeting as a two borough wide street lighting renewal project.

LB Lewisham and LB Croydon have jointly entered in to a PFI deal with a national contractor named Skanska that will firstly renew all street lighting and some street signs in phases over the next four years. Skanska will then operate and maintain the lighting under a fixed period contract for a fee before handing back the assets to both boroughs.

Skanska are responsible for the design development and installation of the new systems and will become the operator and maintainer of all street lights.

At the meeting we were advised of the following:

Over the last couple of years a borough wide consultation had been undertaken by LB Lewisham. None present could recall having been notified of this or of having been invited to participate. Whilst a four page A5 glossy about the project was available, the output from the consultation was not included in the presentation pack.

Skanska are required to conduct a letter drop for every property in each area before they commence work. This appeared to be very patchy. Some residents received letters, some received letters after work commenced and some did not receive letters at all.

The lighting design principles agreed by the boroughs means that lighting provision will focus only on public pathways , highways and public areas. In practice this means that for example if a private pathway, garden or entrance-way currently enjoys the benefit of public lighting, this will not necessarily be the case for the new installation. Several residents complained that they had already been significantly disbenefitted by this.

Several significant issues were identified by residents where work had been completed. Amongst them were:

Poor or reduced lighting levels in paths and streets
Poor lighting in public areas particularly at entrances
Installation of street furniture/poles in the middle of pathways, presenting problems for disabled and sight impaired pedestrians.
Areas formerly covered by public lighting but are not necessarily owned by the council do not now have lighting provision.

There is a Skanska Customer Service Team based in Croydon who can be contacted at 0800 028 5968 and at email address customerserviceteam@skanska.co.uk

A single Liaison Officer has been appointed to represent both boroughs. He is currently an Officer/employee of LB Croydon and can be contacted at john.algar@workingwith.skanska.co.uk.

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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #3
06-03-2012 02:27 PM

Thanks for the detailed info. I wondered what all these yellow marks were on manhole covers etc.
I hope mgmonkey is going to complain about a street light being installed inside the front garden: hope you don't have to pay the electricity bill! Maybe you can charge them rent!

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #4
06-03-2012 06:23 PM

Quote:
Installation of street furniture/poles in the middle of pathways, presenting problems for disabled and sight impaired pedestrians.


As someone who has navigated more than one double buggy (to total destruction), that is a pretty disgraceful development. And needs to be stopped regardless of other considerations.

I guess the thinking is that the maintenance cost will be lower if they can move the posts further away from the traffic.
And effectively pedestrians are being moved closer to the dangerous traffic. Nice.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #5
08-03-2012 08:07 AM

Perryman

Curiously Skanska's first response was to defend their decision to install street sign posts at 800mm from the kerb edge although they did not allude to this as being for simpler maintenance purposes.

This meant that new posts were situated in the mid-path position with less than 1200mm width between the new posts and other street furniture. As you may be aware this is insufficient space for a single non-motorised wheelchair and certainly is wholly inadequate for a motorised wheelchair or double buggy. DoT and other Codes of Practice specify that the minimum width must lie between 1350 and 1500mm.

In our immediate vicinity we now have three instances where the contractor cannot seemingly fix into their designs, the principle that they must not reduce existing widths to dimensions that are insufficient and particularly makes the provision worse for a wheelchair user or pedestrian with impaired vision.

Having received a poor first response, a second email promised further examination of the situation by Skanska, but it must be said that it was stated in less than positive terms with the comment that it would look for a "possible" solution and made no commitment to ensuring this they would not permit this to happen again.

LB Lewisham used to employ an Impairment Officer whose role included assisting borough residents who were sight impaired or who had become wheelchair users and needed help with any issues that presented difficulties to them within the vicinity of their homes. I have been trying to locate this officer to clarify what standards the borough currently deem to be compliant with good DDA provision.

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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #6
08-03-2012 01:04 PM

jgdoherty

Keep up the good work, I am pleased that someone is watching out for wheelchair users. Putting lamposts in the middle of the pavement seems utterly daft to me.

On the subject of disability, can anyone explain why there are so many "disabled" builders that visit Wickes in Catford and take up the disabled parking spaces (conveniently near the entrance, of course).
I can't say I have ever noticed a blue (disabled) badge on display in their windscreens. Do I assume that Wickes are responsible for keeping these spaces clear, or can the police be involved? I notice that disabled spaces in supermarkets are generally left clear.

I will just add that I'm not a wheelchair user, but if there are such marked parking spaces, then they should be kept clear for those that really need them.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #7
08-03-2012 02:00 PM

Thanks for the further details, jgdoherty.

There must be a reason someone feels it is worth moving all these lampposts. I'm just guessing that the nearer a lamppost is to the road, the more likely it is going to be flattened by a rogue car, or bumped by someone parking.

That the pavement is then more hazardous to pedestrians is not a consideration for them. Or that the road is less well lit.

Which lampposts are the worst offenders?
Like 'Cool hand Luke', maybe someone should take a pipe cutter to offending posts. I've not seen the end the film, but I think it ended up OK for him.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #8
08-03-2012 04:25 PM

Just for clarity, with the exception of mgmonkey's problem where it seems they plan to install one on his/her property, the project is intent upon ensuring all lampposts are placed on the edge of the pathway, on the side away from the roadside kerb.

It is the renewal and relocation of signage posts that so far have proven to be the source of this problem (mixed with a measurable absence of applied common sense on the part of the design team).

In mgmonkey's case, if that happened to be my property, I would take steps to ensure that any marks have been entirely erased before the installation team turns up, even if the project team promised they would take action to correct their error.

Not that I would advise someone else to do any such thing of course.

** Spoiler Alert** - I'm afraid that if my memory hasn't failed me Cool Hand Luke was fatally wounded before the movie ended, although you did not actually see him die.

This post was last modified: 08-03-2012 04:34 PM by jgdoherty.

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #9
08-03-2012 05:19 PM

Perryman Wrote:
There must be a reason someone feels it is worth moving all these lampposts. I'm just guessing that the nearer a lamppost is to the road, the more likely it is going to be flattened by a rogue car, or bumped by someone parking.

They are moving the lamposts to the rear of the pavement so that they light the pavement as well as the road (supposedly). The new design are more directional and so less light washes the surrounding area or goes up to the sky. This is done deliberately to reduce 'light pollution'.

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Jane2


Posts: 221
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #10
09-03-2012 01:49 PM

I also thought the reason was to light the path rather than the road. I do remember reading something about this in one of the Council's publications but I can't remember where!

A lot of the existing lamposts near to me are located on the roadside edge of the kerb with the lamp facing the road. Therefore they are lighting the road more than the path. The new lampposts I have seen are situated on the side of the path next to the houses, therefore lighting the pathway more.

When will the old lampposts be removed I wonder? I hope they won't be left. The location of the new lamposts seems fine, but often they are positioned directly to the rear of an existing lamppost (I guess to use the same electricity supply) therefore you have to walk between the two lampposts. I can manage it with a single buggy, but not sure how a wheelchair would manage.

This post was last modified: 09-03-2012 01:50 PM by Jane2.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,348
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
12-03-2012 01:13 PM

Given that the plan for my road is to install "between August 2012 July 2013." and some have actually already been installed, I have no idea when the old ones will be removed!

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mgmonkey


Posts: 96
Joined: May 2009
Post: #12
12-03-2012 01:40 PM

I am glad to report that following my inital email, I contacted Lewisham council using an email address I found on their website and the offending post was moved to a correct position within two days!!

Thumbsup

Many thanks for other info!

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jgdoherty


Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #13
16-03-2012 11:08 AM

I have received email confirmation from Skanska (after a reminder email sent to them) that they propose to correct the problems created by installing posts that narrow the free footpath width.

It does not yet inspire a huge degree of confidence in that they have declined to specify a time frame for the rectification works to be carried out.

Confidence would grow if Skanska made a commitment that demonstrated they had benefitted from the lesson learned and that for the future Skanska will apply common sense on the part of their design team when similar circumstances arise

This application of expertise and competence is not too much to ask for in a project which has a total value of circa 128m and that requires 74m of capital investment on their part..

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #14
16-03-2012 02:04 PM

I still think the motivation for moving the lamp posts back, is to reduce the damage from traffic. I do not believe current lamps are unable to be angled to also illuminate the pavement immediately behind them.
The fall out from this is there will need to be loads more sign posts to display the traffic warnings that were previously strapped to the lampposts.

As long as the pavements are not blocked, then fine and I guess we need to take it on trust that this all makes sense economically.

However the information I saw on a non-delivered circular in the gutter suggests the real savings are to be made by each lamppost being able to be controlled remotely - ie turned off.

Wasteful and polluting as it is to leave all the lights on for 1 car/pedestrian an hour in the dead of night, I would have thought there is a strong correlation between crime and how (badly) an area is lit.

Maybe selected roads can be pretty much blacked out on rotation without any ill effect, but we are going to have to keep an eye on this to see how it develops.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 275
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #15
16-03-2012 09:20 PM

The concept of the remote controlled lamp-post was discussed at the Ward meeting.

The reality is very flexible too. Not only can lights be switched off remotely but can also be commanded to run at dimmed levels.

Very specifically, the answer to the question, "Has LB Lewisham any plans to dim or switch lights off ?", was, "No, not at the moment."

A reasonable response and potentially one that might be reconsidered in the future.

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #16
17-03-2012 11:47 PM

Croydon's website has more details than Lewisham's.

Quote:
Will the lighting columns be going back in the same place or will they be repositioned?

In many circumstances the roads undergo a complete re-design to conform to the current British standards and therefore the positions of the columns must be changed. It is not always possible to integrate the existing column positions in the new design layout.

The new design parameters agreed by the council indicates that where possible we are to light the footpaths in addition to the carriageway, this means that the majority of the lighting columns where possible shall be positioned at the back of the footpath.

When the street light columns are removed and replaced, what will happen to the old equipment?

All lighting equipment that is removed will be dismantled and, where possible, recycled.


The attached PDF gives a Croydon-centric overview of the project if you are interested.



Attached File(s)
.pdf File  LBL Lighting Overview.pdf (Size: 1.87 MB / Downloads: 1137)
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BarCar


Posts: 292
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #17
28-03-2012 10:11 PM

The Lewisham website has been updated (fixed) with the year one schedule at http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/SiteCollectio...arOne.pdf. From what I can tell this starts in August 2011.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #18
29-03-2012 09:38 AM

I always thought we had some of the best street lighting about in Lewisham

PFI means future generations will pay for it. It essential good idea possibly , but not if replacing adequate existing lighting

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #19
29-03-2012 10:19 AM

Picking up youngest daughter from nursery yesterday I noticed that the streetlight had been moved right next to the building thus giving any cat burglar a fantastic advantage in allowing them to shimmy up the light pole on onto the roof.

Not the best bit of thinking I have ever seen.

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crazyhorse


Posts: 5
Joined: Aug 2010
Post: #20
21-04-2012 06:14 AM

We have got the new street lights put in without consultation right up against our fence. We are now permanently floodlit and our bedroom is never dark. They have also just put one so the back of the house is also permanently floodlit. Who do we contact regarding this - there must be some argument we can use about light pollution. It's pretty unbearable.

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