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HOP parade: are all the changes good?
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BarCar


Posts: 294
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #41
07-03-2012 07:11 PM

As I think Michael has said elsewhere, it's not the number of objectors but whether the application complies with planning policy.

I haven't seen anything in the Sainsbury's discussion that refers to specifc planning policy that's being breached. I'd rather a Sainsbury's Local than a corner shop. Hills and Parkes are serving a different market. There are many locations in the city that show that other businesses can co-exist with a supermarket - they just need to differentiate themselves.

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PJT


Posts: 19
Joined: Sep 2011
Post: #42
07-03-2012 11:16 PM

I actually live on HOP and I love the ability to shop locally whenever possible. We are very fortunate to have the wonderful deli, Hills & Parkes, but there is no escaping the fact that it is expensive. We use it once a week for a treat at the weekend but have been shocked at how persistently the prices vary from week to week and it's sadly not one or two pence I'm talking about. It most definitely is geared to a certain "market" in the area but not to everyone's pockets!

We, along with many others, put in our formal objection to the Domino's planning application and were happy and relieved to see it rejected. The Old Bank restaurant was a particular favourite of my partner and I and we miss it very much. We would love to see a gastro pub or something similar take over that lovely building.

On the other hand we would both be very happy to support a Sainsbury's Local on the Parade and think it would be a very good addition to the area. I'm sorry that it will affect the smaller traders but we are all counting the pennies in our wallets/purses at the moment and supporting all these small traders gets more and more difficult.

We were very sad to hear that the Pine shop had gone - we purchased many items from there when we first moved to HOP and always enjoyed having a look round. They will be sadly missed in the street.

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Pico


Posts: 136
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #43
08-03-2012 11:13 AM

It's not the end of the world for me if the mob with pitchforks turns progress away again...

It is a shame for individuals in the community who don't have a car or a bus pass or perhaps have poor mobility. A supermarket near to Honor Oak Station would help the most vulnerable in our community get access to fresh stock at decent prices. As I have said before i understand that the local businesses will fight hard to defend their interests but I do not think it is in the interests of our community to block Sainsburys coming in.

I would love it if we could set up a poll sensitive to multiple votes via IP addresses. I am fairly sure the majority welcomes Sainsburys.

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roadrummer


Posts: 21
Joined: Sep 2011
Post: #44
08-03-2012 03:15 PM

That Old Bank site has been vacant for too long now, and with the pet shop and furniture shop closures, the high street is suffering. Anyone obstructing progress on that high street is playing a dangerous game. The Dominos protest made sense at the time (I backed it) - Hopscotch was expanding, Hills and Parkes had just opened - but the high street is in decline now, and halting any development is sending a signal to would-be investors that Honor Oak is the wrong place to invest. A Sainsburys for our high street is a very good idea. It will provide much needed fresh fruit and veg in the neighbourhood and a shopping opportunity for those without a car. More importantly, it will break the existing trend of shop closures and decline. Once that narrative takes hold it will be hard to reverse. I say enough dithering - let the turnaround begin!

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Ruddiger


Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #45
08-03-2012 03:34 PM

The difference with the Domino's campaign, which I supported and still think was the right thing, is that people had a clear idea of a better alternative use for that site and hopefully there is now every chance we will get a pub or restaurant use in there.

What mystifies me about the opposition to Sainsbury's is what opponents think will open up in those units instead? Personally I think it would be a great addition to the street and we should be really pleased if a decent national retailer is interested. Good independent shops, like Hills and Parkes, have nothing to fear because they offer something very different.

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Cheeky


Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #46
08-03-2012 04:08 PM

It seems the majority of people on here are pro a Sainsbury's (or the like) coming to our parade. If there is some kind of meeting with the Council to discuss this, hopefully people who are voicing their opinion on here along with those 90 opposing it (if they're really that bothered) would attend. It would be interesting to hear the arguments from both sides, especially those from the against crowd.

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Pico


Posts: 136
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #47
08-03-2012 04:12 PM

When is the meeting again? I rarely go to these things but I am sorely tempted for this one...

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hoona


Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #48
08-03-2012 05:00 PM

roadrummer, you couldn't have put forward the argument more succinctly. I agree wholeheartedly.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #49
08-03-2012 05:13 PM

Quote:
What mystifies me about the opposition to Sainsbury's is what opponents think will open up in those units instead? Personally I think it would be a great addition to the street and we should be really pleased if a decent national retailer is interested. Good independent shops, like Hills and Parkes, have nothing to fear because they offer something very different.


Couldn't have phrased it better.

To add a personal perspective on this:
I don't actually like Sainsburys. We get meat, fish and veg from independent retailers and I rather grudgingly use the one in Forest Hill for other items. Virtually none of which are available in the current shops on HOP. So the nett affect for us would be to keep more of our shopping local, save time & give an added incentive to pop in another local shop and buy something. Everybody wins except the manager at Sainsburys Forest Hill.

Some businesses will probably need to diversify - if the Honor Oak Supermarket, for instance, were to stock fresh veg and dry goods la SMB in Lordship Lane, I reckon that would work brilliantly with or without a Sainsburys, but especially with one.

It is sad to see White Wood go. I do hope a good business can start there soon. At this rate of closure, maybe even Sainsburys will get cold feet.

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lillam


Posts: 129
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #50
08-03-2012 07:08 PM

Jsut a word about chainstores - I went down Lordship Lane last week and the whole length of that road there are no chains apart from estate agents and the Co-Op. Church St in Stokey also takes pride in the fact that it is chain free. I never really thought about it before, but HOP is chain free, and long may it stay that way.

The evening standard ran something on how small shops are closing at an alarming rate on the Kings Road of all places, as once chains move in the rents go higher and only other chains can afford. Kings Rd is now any (upmarket) highstreet in the UK.

One Sainsburys local may not do that on its own, but it is the thin end of the wedge, and my instinct is to be very wary. At least the Budgens up in Crofton Park seems to be run as a franchise, with the original shopkeeper (Jay?) continuing to run it as a family store. Hes been there for years. That is a model Im much happier supporting.

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hoona


Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #51
08-03-2012 07:51 PM

lillam re: Lordship Lane - it's simply not true it's all independents except Co-op and estate agents!! What about Iceland? Londis? Gourmet Burger Kitchen? Favorite Chicken? Caffe Nero? William Hill? JoJo Maman Bebe? White Stuff? Cost Cutter? The Sainsbury's Local at the top? These are ALL chains happily co-existing with independent newsagents, pubs and gift shops etc...

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #52
08-03-2012 08:04 PM

Lillam,

I agree with you re franchise running - Budgens is a better supermarket for it IMO and am also a fan of the branch in Crofton Park.

However, I do not believe that your "chain" analysis of Lordship Lane is incorrect. There is Iceland, Londis, White Stuff, Co-op funeral care, Nicolas, Gourmet Burger Kitchen, Cafe Nero & Favorite (sic) Chicken & Ribs. To name a few off the top of my head.

I think that this shows a mix of chains and independents works well, in fact given I would welcome some (Nicolas, yes please) to Honor Oak with open arms, it could be argued that a mix works better for being so. There is certainly no "thin end of a wedge" argument to be had from one shop.

Whether one agrees with that or not, I would still prefer a parade of chain stores to a row of empty shops, or shudder, shops converted to residences. Those are the eventualities we should avoid at all costs IMO.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #53
08-03-2012 08:05 PM

LOL, you beat me to it Hoona.

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ontheedge


Posts: 31
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #54
08-03-2012 08:42 PM

Shops like the off licence do them selves no favours, went in the other night to buy some cigarettes which they charge a pound more than sainsburys for, went to use card to be told cash only so had to use their cashpoint outside which charges 1.50 per transaction so all in all 2 quid extra for cigs, yes I know I shouldn't smoke and should be more prepared and yes I am happy to pay a little extra for the convenience of getting something locally but almost an extra 30% !!

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roadrummer


Posts: 21
Joined: Sep 2011
Post: #55
08-03-2012 09:01 PM

It is also very important to note that the independent shops in east dulwich and stokey were built on ten years of boom. That boom is over. Whether we like it or not, independents will have a tougher time finding the financing to launch a new shop and will have to work harder to make it work. I'd love a street filled with lovely independent shops selling all I'll ever need, but that's an aspirational fantasy circa 2004. The reality is our high street is dying and we need investors - independent, chain or otherwise.

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Poppy9560


Posts: 273
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #56
08-03-2012 10:00 PM

ontheedge: the Post Office on Brockley Rise has a cash machine which is free, and the Brockley Supermarket seems reasonable for cigarettes

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Codrington Brill


Posts: 66
Joined: Mar 2012
Post: #57
08-03-2012 10:52 PM

What is the Council planning for the parade? I checked the draft plans for the area (the LDF). At the moment, the draft policy for local parades seems to allow for a more flexible approach if there are vacant shops while ensuring that there are sufficient convenience shops and the vitality of the parade is preserved. However the amount of takeaways will be limited

ref: http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/pl...ay2007.pdf

There appears to be no specific proposals for HOP parade in the LDF so developments will be assessed against the above policy if it is adopted.

In conclusion, it looks like there will be opportunities for a wider range of uses for the parade.

Just a thought.

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ontheedge


Posts: 31
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #58
08-03-2012 11:47 PM

yes I know the post office has a free cash machine and often use it, and yes Brockley Supermarket is a great shop as is Honor Oak Supermarket which I often use, but late at night the Off licence was my only choice but had Sainsburys been there I know which I would have chosen, they are so rude in that off licence

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milliemop


Posts: 183
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #59
12-03-2012 02:45 PM

Have to agree with onetheedge - these guys in the off licence are miserable - couldn't raise a smile between them allCursing Popped in once - like yourself had no other choice - but would rather go without than use them again.

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Pico


Posts: 136
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #60
12-03-2012 02:48 PM

The guys in the offy need a bit of work. I have got a few smiles out of them if I put the effort in. The younger lad is very sweet and has a wonderfully sincere smile.

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