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HOP parade: are all the changes good?
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siazzah


Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #1
04-03-2012 02:36 PM

I have been trawling through the forums (esp Domino's one) and talking to traders in the parade. Was against Bank being taken over by fast food chain(hurrah) but not sure all the other closures/planned openings are good. From speaking to owners of the White Wood shop on the corner, the way the landlords have acted has not been very ethical. They feel tricked by the lawyers into losing their shop, which has been there for long time. Hearing their story, it does sound that once again the small boys are being squashed out by the mightly (is it true it is Simon Cowell's brother's property firm that is behind all this?).
I know it sounds nice to have a Sainsbury's Local but we have plenty of food outlets in the vicinity and it is rare to see smaller stores survive when someone like this comes to town. Yes, it may attract other big brands to the area but this is only a small parade, unlike the main East Dulwich roads, and we have Lewisham down the road if you want a clone high street and FH for a big supermarket. Also, and I actually do like Sainsbury's, but it will be a sad world when there is no alternative and when the range provided is only that of the big food and drink manufacturers who can afford to pay to be on supermarkets' shelves.
Can someone summarise all the closures/planned openings on the parade at this exact time? It is getting confusing!! Confused

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hoona


Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #2
04-03-2012 02:42 PM

I didn't even know the White Wood shop was closing down! That's a real shame...Sad

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siazzah


Posts: 11
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #3
04-03-2012 02:44 PM

Yes, we were there a couple of weeks ago to pick up some stuff and they told us. They are seeking a new shop in the area at the moment so fingers crossed!

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Poppy9560


Posts: 273
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #4
04-03-2012 02:57 PM

I fear from what I've seen on this forum about the rent rises it will only be the likes of Sainsbury's who will be able to surrvive on HOP soon. I have no objection to a Sainsbuys/tesco etc local opening because it would be useful but I would like to see the wide variety of businesses we currently enjoy stay. It has been a shame the Old Bank has been empty so long - a Cafe Rouge/Zizzi type establishment would be good there - we certainly don't need any more takeaways as there are plenty on HOP/Brockley Rise

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Pico


Posts: 135
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #5
04-03-2012 05:08 PM

I am looking forward to big brand shops coming in. It would be great to have a pizza express, Sainsburys, Starbucks, Boots etc.

The East London Line combined with some big brand shops will only enhance the area. It's exciting!

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Tinkerbell


Posts: 356
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #6
04-03-2012 05:09 PM

That's a great shame regarding the White Wood Shop and if true, then that landlord really is a massive a**h**e. Apologies, but I cannot think of a nicer word. They've made such an effort to keep that shop going and it's a lovely sight, so much attention to detail. I'll miss it greatly if it goes.

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hoona


Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #7
04-03-2012 05:19 PM

I agree. Really sad. We'll now have six empty premises on the parade (including the antique place which is just a front) - plus the Jeyarani shop is up for sale... Really depressing if all these shops are empty for months and months.
Does this landlord really expect people are going to pay such extortionate rents?

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oryx


Posts: 203
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #8
04-03-2012 06:20 PM

It's a great shame re the Whitewood shop - not only was their furniture nice and reasonably priced (I bought a bookcase from there last year, which I'm delighted with), it was a good-looking shop as well and at one time that and the Old Bank made a lovely gateway to HOP.

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hoppit


Posts: 8
Joined: Jan 2009
Post: #9
04-03-2012 09:26 PM

How many Sainsburys do I need? Currently I can drive to a superstore in Sydenham, New Cross Gate or Dog Kennel Hill or I can pop down to Forest Hill or lewisham. I could also have them come to my door with internet shopping.

This does not take into account all the other little supermarkets within walking or short driving distance including Budgens, Co-op, Tesco, Lidl.

I personally do not subscribe to the increased footfall theory. Are people avoiding using the HOP train station for their commute cause there is no Sainsburys? Perhaps they prefer to get their via the side streets like Riseldine Rd as they are scared of showing their face on the main road?

If Sainsburys move in then people use that to buy all the last minute impulse stuff they may get from current shops. Once they go in and buy X and Y they will not be popping into another shop to get a bottle of Z from one of the old shops. Those shops have tight margins and depend on that impulse/discretionary spending. Its almost like crumbs from the table. Now Sainsburys want to hoover up that for their shareholders as well.

I image there will be a lot of guilty looking people sheepishly walking past the old shops with their sainsburys carrier bags. Don't worry you wont have to feel guilty for too long as they wont be there for too long!

Alternatively you could skulk down Riseldine again. There goes the footfall!

By the way the Monday morning ticket queues at the train station never ceasce to amaze me. "Why don't they go to the nearest shop 2 mins away on the parade for their oysters like I do" I think as I sail on through.

This post was last modified: 04-03-2012 09:29 PM by hoppit.

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 347
Joined: May 2005
Post: #10
04-03-2012 10:03 PM

Quoting siazzah - 'the way the landlords have acted has not been very ethical. They feel tricked by the lawyers into losing their shop, which has been there for long time. Hearing their story, it does sound that once again the small boys are being squashed out by the mightly'

What actually happened?

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Poppy9560


Posts: 273
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #11
04-03-2012 10:11 PM

hoppit - we don't all have the luxury of a car to pop to the supermarket so one on HOP would be a bonus. It wouldn't be worth me ordering stuff off the internet as a lone householder - I rely on public transport and it's not much fun carrying heavy shoping bags on the bus

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Cheeky


Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #12
05-03-2012 09:09 AM

I would never feel guilty walking past any shop down the highstreet holding a Sainsbury's bag. What they should do if they saw me holding one should think to themselves 'why is that person holding a sainsbury's bag and not shoping in my shop? Maybe I better spruce my place up a bit, make it a more pleasant environment to shop and stock some things that are needed by local people (who don't have the time, transport or inclination to travel to a distant supermarket) like fresh fruit & veg and fresh meat.'

A major supermarket chain having a small 'local' on our highstreet is no bad thing, I never shop in any of the small newsagent shops anyway for the reasons i've mentioned above.

This post was last modified: 05-03-2012 09:10 AM by Cheeky.

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Tinkerbell


Posts: 356
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #13
05-03-2012 10:01 AM

Cheeky - sorry, but that is a very simplistic view of things. You know very well that "sprucing the place up a bit and making it a more pleasant environment to shop" is not going to enable the small high street business to compete with the purchasing power of the large supermarkets, who are in a price war and even selling many items at loss to get the customer through their door. If a small shop tries to run with that concept, spruced up shelves and lick of paint or not, it will go out of business.

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Cheeky


Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #14
05-03-2012 10:23 AM

Tinkerbell, I don't agree at all. I don't shop in these shops for the exact reasons I mentioned. Also I don't understand your comments on buyer power. It has been mentioned many times before on here (and I have found out myself) that prices in Sainsbury's are higher than the smaller shops in the area. They are no less convenient, and If people want to spend less on their goods (if the price argument is true), surely then, the smaller independent places from what you are saying have nothing to worry about do they?

This post was last modified: 05-03-2012 10:28 AM by Cheeky.

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Cheeky


Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #15
05-03-2012 10:32 AM

I guess this argument should be kept to another thread though as we're going off track a bit.

It's sad about the wood shop, they are a credit to our highstreet and it's a shame what seems to be happening as a result of someone recently buying all the freeholds of most of the businesses (I think) who seems to have no interest in our community at all!!!

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hoona


Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #16
05-03-2012 12:07 PM

Just walked past the white wood shop and it's totally emptySad This is certainly not a good change. Just another empty shop!Cursing

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Calm1


Posts: 26
Joined: Feb 2012
Post: #17
05-03-2012 12:10 PM

In reply to Tinkerbell and Anotherjohn and anybody else who has made up their mind on the basis of limited facts (and those inaccurate) I will inform you of the exact circumstances surrounding The White Wood Shop.
The family run business has been struggling for some time. The lease which included the residentiual parts and the stable block were massively under let and a review was outstanding. Even at the old rent level, rent was six months in arrears and numerous efforts to try to assist with payment arrangements were agreed and then unfulfilled. The review was carried out by local agents with extensive experience of the market and a figure was agreed with the tenant at a level well below the value of the premises. Unfortunately , once again payments were not forthcoming.
The point arrived at which any landlord would have no option but to seek assistance from the courts to avoid the position becoming completely untenable. The tenants were fully aware of the situation, did not come to the hearing or make any representations and were given a month to pay the significant arrears to avoid forfeiture. They were unable to comply and the landlord, who incidentally has as much to do with Simon Cowell as you or I, now has empty premises which I am sure was not their desire as demonstrated by their prolonged efforts to try to assist.
This new thread once again refers to the potential Sainsbury let and I understand that a public meeting is proposed for next Monday at the Tapas Bar (?) at which all will have the opportunity to express their views whether for or against such a move. I hope everybody that attends will keep an open mind and consider the benefits to the many rather than pandering to the vested interests of the very few.
I trust this helps.

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Tinkerbell


Posts: 356
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #18
05-03-2012 12:55 PM

Calm1 - My post read "if true". If not true, then it would be good to hear both sides. You've presented one, (one that is presumably that of the landlord and his/her representatives/agents) and that is absolutely fair enough. We have however heard strangely similar stories about the greediness of HOP parade landlord/s many times from several local businesses in the last couple of years. One cannot help but find it strange.
Thank you however, for letting us know about the meeting at Try Tapas. What time is this?

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Calm1


Posts: 26
Joined: Feb 2012
Post: #19
05-03-2012 01:26 PM

Tinkerbell, you are right that a view is best based on the facts and I was pleased to provide them.
Next week's meeting is yet to be confirmed but I would expect 7-7.30 would be proposed by Geoff Whitington at Lewisham Planning.
If I hear more I will post straight away.
Finally I would like to point out that the landlord of Indo Bangla and The White Wood Shop have no other commercial interests in the parade and are certainly not responsible for any of the reviews that have been remarked upon in other posts. In fact they agree rents with all their tenants on a willing basis and hope that tenants will honour their commitments.

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hoona


Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #20
05-03-2012 01:39 PM

Thanks for providing clarity Calm1. Do the landlords have a potential tenant for the white wood shop then?

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