I am just concerned that it will actually get occupied

Tinkerbell
thank you for the Brockley website link. I didn't know there was a lovely market like that nearby. I knew the one in Lewisham, but not this one. I will try to go there.
I normally shop in SB, Lidl, Morrison and find organic food there, but I do not buy necessarily everything organic. However, as I have been very ill recently, I need to be careful where my food come from.
Regarding HOP it would be nice, as someone else has said, if there were food shops like those ones in Lordship Lane, ie. the organic butcher, Mortons the fresh fishmonger, the organic fruits and vegetables, some nice eateries, so people would feel happier. Big chain stores, whether convenience or locals, are not always the answer. But what about the "Premier" supermarket? Isn't that close by? I don't live in the area, but in FH, but often use the station. Certainly the area needs to be made more lively and welcoming.

Dear Cheeky,

All you have to do is look at other places where the introduction of a Local chain store has led to an increase in traffic, and a negative impact on the local economy.

Haranguing me with threats of being laughed off the forum, seems to suggest you're familiar with trolling. I hasten to add it's not the best way to maintain a civil minded conversation.

I'm pitching my tent along with the people against having a Sainsbury's Local in the parade. We are all entitled to an opinion.

Out of interest...where has a shopping parade been 'devastated' but the introduction of a local supermarket? This is a genuine question - because I'd be interested to know.

1. gannaways is the first victim of sainsburys

2. What can we expect if Sainsbury's succeed?

Those articles are very biased.. one is from an action group against Sainsburys! The other, in Wessex.. states "The new Sainsbury’s will reportedly provide over 400 jobs for locals" - thats hardly a small local shop on Honor Oak Park...!

Dear Yomster,

I actually don't know what you're talking about

With regards to maintaining a civil minded conversation, I have done, and will continue to do so.

As for trolling, I am gradually picking up what this term means through reading posts on this forum, however, I can safely say any posts made on here by me are purely ones of personal interest to me and I hope, are in the interests of the community as a whole.

I repeat, once again, in your own words, 'we are all entitled to our opinion'.

This post was last modified: 14-02-2012 02:18 PM by Cheeky.

The unit has been empty for the best part of a year. Has there been any other interested parties?

I sent my support for this application.

Hey Yomster

Are you a local shop owner? There is a certain vehement anger coming over in your posts. In the context of being a local shop owner it would be understandable. I feel for the local businesses but I want progress more.

As Bebei correctly states, the properties have been vacant for some time and whilst we all have our opinions as to ' what would be nice' whether it be M&S, Waitrose, family butcher, local green grocer or whatever the fact remains that offers are made and accepted by tenants and landlords. Suggestions earlier that the greed of landlords drives businesses away is misguided as there are independent experts who assess fair market rent and, sad as it may be,not all enterprises are profitable enough to pay those levels. There are very few philanthropic landlords. They are in business to make profits in exactly the same way as the tenants and why should it be any other way? It cannot be in their best interest to have a vacant shop producing no income so reasonable levels are sought and achieved in an open market relationship. Where a tenant finds it impossible to meet those obligations they part ways. In the words of Bruce Honsby ' that's just the way it is'.

I think it there could be legitimate cause for concern from independent greengrocers, butchers, and fishmongers to a small supermarket opening in the local area. But unfortunately this is not what Honor Oak currently has.

What it does have is a number of shops that will benefit from the increased footfall and fewer people driving to Bell Green or elsewhere for their weekly shop. It may even reduce people getting home deliveries from shops in Beckenham when they find that fresh produce is available on their way home from the station. I'm sure the local Honor Oak economy will get a boost from the inclusion of a small supermarket in the high street.

I return to the example of Tesco in 'Kirkdale Village', where a small supermarket has done no harm to existing businesses or the new ones that have been attracted to the area since Tesco opened, including an independent bakery.

This is nothing like Dominos, which would have barely increased footfall to the town centre and would have taken a prime retail/restaurant/pub unit away from the use for which it is best placed.

Am in complete agreement with this.

My own purely anecdotal feeling is that many locals only use the shops on HOP for 'top up' purposes. This is certainly true in our case as we tend to use other sources for perishable food items - butchers, fishmonger, greengrocers, Brockley market, Budgens. What remains we source from a supermarket and that is generally the Sainsburys in Forest Hill (with some reluctance I might add, see threads passim). The nett effect of this, if anything, is that we will get these same items from a more local shop, with less travel involved. Surely a good thing?

In the case of the remaining local users who would prefer to use the existing shops (wherever they may be), they can still do so. All that remains then are those who would start using the shops, if only the new supermarket, for the first time. Again, surely a good thing?

This post was last modified: 14-02-2012 03:43 PM by lacb.

I used to live in Finsbury Park and on my stretch of road we had many independent supermarkets and a small Tesco and Sainsburys and they survived quite well. The difference being is that the independent supermarkets were well stocked with fresh herbs, spices, fruit and vegetables and often better priced. I think that sadly that is the difference to Honor Oak and Forest Hill because apart from the deli (which is lovely but a bit pricey) there really isn't anywhere that offers a selection of these things so it means that I need to visit Sainsburys in FH (of which I'm no huge fan) if I want more of a selection. Personally, I think it will be a good thing but if I were an owner of any of the other shops (with excpetion of the deli maybe) on the parade the I would be worried and I think it will have a very negative effect on these businesses.

I am curious as to which shops you think this will affect hellohello?

It will affect the 4 newsagent/off licences, agreed, but please elaborate on who else it would have a 'negative' effect on?

Thanks

This post was last modified: 14-02-2012 04:33 PM by Cheeky.

Exactly these businesses. If I were they, I would be worried. Could also have an effect on the shops at the top of Brockley Rise as people coming from HO in their direction would probably use a larger / better stocked super market. I would probably include myself in those people. Simply making a point that whilst a Sainsburys or other supermarket probably would take away business from local shops unless they had something different to offer.

Sorry last bit didn't make much sense... sleep deprived! What I meant to say was that whilst a Sainsburys etc would make life more convenient for some people it probably would take away business from local shops unless they had something different to offer.

'it will affect the 4 newsagent/ off licenses '. Wonder if there was the same level of objection to the second,third and fourth......

I will be interested to see how the Council approaches this one.

Two of the units are Use Class A3 and the third is A1. Given that change of use from A3 to A1 is permitted, the three units could be converted to A1 without permission. These in turn could then be merged into a single larger shop without permission because no change of use would have resulted.

In this case the proposal needs permission anyway because of the additional flats and alterations to the rear of the shop.

My prediction - the application will be refused due to inadequate space provided in some of the flats but the principle of the larger shop would be acceptable as the change doesn't need permission. I might be wrong.

Hellohello, I admire your charity, but no business has a God-given right to survive.

You said "if I were an owner of any of the other shops (with excpetion of the deli maybe) on the parade the I would be worried and I think it will have a very negative effect on these businesses."

This may be true. But ask why. The fact is, the shops on our high street sell a poor selection of products and have uninspired presentation.

If a shop wants to open with a better selection of products at prices that people can afford, then the residents are the big winners. Why would those same residents stop progress in order to support 'local' shops which have not being giving people what they want?

So, looking at the wider picture and changes in the retail landscape that have taken place (and still do), ultimately, having just 3-4 major supermarket chains dominating our high streets with their ever cheap but low quality "fresh" fare gives us "a better selection" and lots of variety? Really? Really??? How come I don't feel like a winner? Why do I feel that this is actually NOT progress?