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New Sainsburys, 55-59 Honor Oak Park
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Posts: 119
Joined: Aug 2009
Post: #21
25-01-2012 02:50 PM

Let's make sure we all email the planners to say YES!

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Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #22
25-01-2012 04:32 PM

Have been doing a bit of detective work.

If you look at the information in the 'Design and Access Statement' and the use of the terminology 'Back Up Area' in the drawings, both from the planning application, it would suggest that Saino's will soon be arriving at a highstreet near you quite soon.

Yes please, i'll take one of those

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Posts: 50
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #23
25-01-2012 05:28 PM

Suddenly I'm reminded of the old thread about the future of the Blockbuster site in Forest Hill. Was I dreaming, or did someone on the forum say they hoped it would turn into a Wholefoods store - but it's now a low-priced general household goods shop (i.e. a P***dshop).

Perhaps the new HOP shop will herald Lidl's move into the convenience store market, or Gogi's Off Licence will take their unique range of wines and expensive cash point across the streetÖ

Seriously though, if we are getting a supermarket I'd vote for a Sainsburys over a Tesco, but I'm managing my own expectations about what we actually will get. Sainsburys did have a local shop at the garage on Stansted Road (next to the fire station) but presumably wasn't profitable enough or was too close to FH store?

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Posts: 204
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #24
25-01-2012 05:29 PM

How do we know other supermarkets don't use the terminology 'back up area'?

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Posts: 129
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #25
28-01-2012 06:01 AM

Surprised at how positive everyone is about this - it will kill local shops, and once they're gone they're gone.

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Posts: 54
Joined: Aug 2011
Post: #26
28-01-2012 12:20 PM

Never really understood this argument. How does the presence of Sainsburys affect a furniture shop, a bar, a dry cleaning service, a beauty shop on this high street? If anything I think it would complement what's already there. I can see that the Deli, maybe the florist and certainly the off licence/grocery loosing business so it's up to them to look at how they remarket themselves so that they offer something different. The off licence is the most vulnerable and they nead to decide ( assuming a new supermarket is coming) whether they can compete, move or sell something else. There's no excuse to 'carry on with business as usual' ; I would feel sorry for any shop that tried it's best to compete and failed but I've no sympathy for any business that doesn't adapt. Honor Oak doesn't owe any business a job for life. Too many high street businesses see running a shop as a lifestyle and to be frank, competition is more fierce here than any other area of industry.

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Posts: 119
Joined: Aug 2009
Post: #27
28-01-2012 12:28 PM

i cant stand that off license they are extremely rude and deliberately dont let you pay by card so that you have to use their rip off cash machine. They will go bust Thumbdown

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Posts: 3
Joined: Jan 2012
Post: #28
29-01-2012 07:11 PM

The local shops do a great job around here and is personal enough for you to be part of the community, that's why I would be against any further class A1 development around here.

If as expected Sainsbury set up shop, then the local residents here will have to suffer with:

1. Constant deliveries 3 or 4 times a day 6-7 days a week
2. More pressure on limited parking, pollution
3. Also if the rear residential development is also approved - potentially 5 more properties adding to parking and local ammenties strains.

It would be better if we and others like the Forest Hill Society etc. worked with existing shops to improve (service, standards etc). Speaking to some of the shop owners this appaeras to be a wake up call for them and I am sure they would change or go out of business eventually.

Any comments to Lewisham Council needs to be made no later then the 10th February 2012:

Geoff Whittington
Lewisham Council
Planning Department
Lewisham Town Hall

or email

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Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Post: #29
29-01-2012 07:52 PM

Having lived here for quite a while, and seen many shops come and go... A Sainsbury's would kill the parade.

We are a small village, complaining that you'd rather a shop closed down because "they don't take credit cards" is a good indication of the type of person you are. Some places just don't do them! Next thing you'll be chastising a store for not being open all hours.

I shudder at the thought of a chain moving into the area! I've seen this happen in other parts of town and it heralds the death of what we call a local community.

I sincerely hope I'm not the only person with reservations on the forum. If you want your big shopping experience, SE23 is within 5 mins drive of a large local. Worse case scenario - walk to it!

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Posts: 136
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #30
29-01-2012 11:39 PM

I suspect most people want a Sainsbury's. Is there a way to put a public vote on the forum? Obviously sensitive to IP addresses etc. So people can't skew results with multiple votes.

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Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #31
30-01-2012 11:00 AM

I really don't understand comments such as those yomster and working4HOP have posted here. Yomster, your post is a complete contradiction in terms. In your opening sentence you say you have seen many shops come and go, and then go on to say a Sainsburys would kill the high street!!!??

Quite a few years ago a number of retail units on the parade were turned into residential units as it was deemed the high street wasn't surviving. Let's look at the current situation on our 'vibrant and ALIVE' high street. We have maybe 20-25 units available for some form of retail, and out of that 6 of them (3 of which are in question for the proposed development) currently serve no use to the general public due to the fact they didn't supply the local community with what they wanted (it seems to have gone unnoticed on here that the pet shop had the bailiffs in 2 or 3 weeks a go now!!!!). What is it that you want? Shops to Ďcome and goí forever more, is that a sign of a successful parade of shops?

Something is not right, and it hasn't been for a long while. There are some good shops on our high street, but it is still not a hub, itís not a place that people gravitate to. A Ďpopularí (thereís a reason why itís called popular) local chain will help to achieve this in my opinion, a tried and tested shop offering convenience, a good shopping experience, and offering products the general public actually want and need is what our high street needs to bring people in to the area. This, in turn will increase visibility of all the other outlets close by. Iíve said it before on this forum that thereís a reason why chains succeed and thatís because theyíve found a winning formula, people want to shop there. Please donít say itís because they can use economies of scale, itís been mentioned many times that theyíre more expensive than the smaller shops. If you are against these chains, donít shop there, support the smaller less inviting shops.

I want a free cash machine on our high street, I want 'fresh' veg available, I want a place I can buy meat from on my walk home that i can cook up for my evening meal. Letís be honest, the ONLY shops on the parade that this may possibly be detrimental to are the newsagents. There are 4 newsagents on the street, none of them do anything to enhance my shopping experience. This is going to be a kick up the backside to them if it actually happens and if they do want to succeed then theyíre going to have to stop resting on their laurels and up their game; this can only be a good thing for the consumer.

I see hundreds of people exit the train station every 5-10 minutes in the evening, I kind of use it to gauge the popularity of the area and in my opinion this area is increasingly attracting lots of professional people who have money to spend. 99% of them turn left, right, straight ahead out of the station and walk straight past all the shops or donít give them a single thought and walk to their homes in the opposite direction, a Sainsburyís local or the like would attract these people. It will inject something into the high street that is badly needed.

Sorry to go on people but (and Iíve nearly finished) I do have to say that Working4HOP, youíre really clutching at straws with your comments:

1. Constant deliveries 3 or 4 times a day (another contradiction in terms)? surely, delivering all the Ďfreshí produce which is badly needed.
2. Pollution? Have you seen the traffic already coming down Honor Oak Park of an evening?
3(a) If the rear residential development is approved? I donít quite understand what you mean, Iím not 100% sure as Iím not looking at the plans but arenít there already flats there, in fact are they not reducing the number of flats?
Öand finally, the most strange, 3(b) Local amenity strains? What on earth are you trying to suggest by saying that!!!!???

Last thing!!!! Iím all for getting an independent butcher, baker, fishmonger, grocer and any other much needed outlet onto the parade but letís be honest, weíve waited long enough and Iím afraid weíd just be waiting forever.

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Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #32
30-01-2012 11:31 AM

The best thing that happened to 'Kirkdale Villiage' was the new Tesco Metro as there are now more people visiting other local shops. Costcutter, less than 200 meters away, continues to be in business despite competition from the biggest of the supermarket chains.

I think it is wrong to see a supermarket (not a hypermarket) as the death of the rest of the high street. I agree with those who feel it could make a positive contribution to the success of Honor Oak Park.

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Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Post: #33
30-01-2012 12:31 PM

Not wanting to monopolise this chat, but... Honor Oak Park is slap-bang in the middle of several supermarkets! Crofton Park, Peckham / Nunhead, Forest Hill, Dulwich, Sydenham... We have Coop, Budgen, Sainsbury, Tesco and more around us!

I opted to live in this area because it has a different village-ish tone about it. To be honest that's the beauty of this place. The shops on the parade cater for most things, and their the prices are reasonable. As a point of reference, Sainsbury's Local prices are higher than the bigger stores - you pay a premium for having it on your doorstep, as well as seeing local business go down the plug hole.

What his neighbourhood needs is NOT another chain store.

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Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #34
30-01-2012 01:15 PM

I don't live in Crofton Park, Peckham / Nunhead, Forest Hill, Dulwich, Sydenham, I live in Honor Oak Park!!!

The current outlets on the high street do NOT offer the basic provisions for a decent home cooked meal!!!!

What's your problem with 'chains' yomster?

If an existing business goes down the plug hole it's thorugh nobodies fault but their own, if it offers something people want, a decent product, price and experience, will it not thrive and do well?

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Posts: 54
Joined: Aug 2011
Post: #35
30-01-2012 01:23 PM

I don't have a problem with cost - I'd like convenience and an opportunity to support other local stores, all in the same place. If I go to peckham or forest hill (etc) then it's those areas/communities that benefit from my business. HOP doesn't - simple as that as it doesn't have the key store that most people expect when they come home from work to buy dinner on impulse - a supermarket!

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Posts: 119
Joined: Nov 2006
Post: #36
30-01-2012 01:43 PM

Cheeky, I have to agree with you.

The only businesses I use on a regular(ish) basis Hopscotch, Jumping bean and Forest Hill kebabs

In our time in HOP I have tried all the businesses (with the exception of the pet shop), and don't use them because we either have no use for or simply get better products/services elsewhere.

- Have tried Try a few times (both eat in and take away), but have never really had an experience good enough to bring us back
- The wood shop failed to give us a quote for furniture despite 3 requests
- the framers was more expensive and took 3 times as long as my usual store

I'd gladly support the parade more, but only if it suits me and my requirements.

With regards to Sainsburys I live between HOP and Crofton park, and would use it if walking past, the same way I'd use Budgens if i was walking that way.

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Posts: 57
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #37
30-01-2012 01:47 PM

Cheeky - there is a free cash machine on Brockley Rise outside the Post Office - only a few minutes walk away. Never any need to pay a fee to get your own money out!!

I am all for a Sainsburys local on the parade - if I get home late it would mean I don't have to alight at New Cross Gate to go to Sainsburys there for fresh bread, meat, fish and veg then get back on the train back to HOP.

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Posts: 135
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #38
30-01-2012 02:53 PM

The HOP parade has been treading water for the last 15 years and for most of that time it was as attractive as the poor old goldfish in the dental appliances shop window.

In any case, whatever your opinion about the proposal, this kind of development is probably inevitable now that the Overground is bringing Canary Wharf money into the area.

If you are worried about East Dulwich style gentrification you may as well pack your bags and move. Time and tide wait for no man.

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Posts: 119
Joined: Nov 2006
Post: #39
30-01-2012 02:59 PM

152047 - what does "East Dulwich style gentrification" mean?

If it refers to the types of businesses and atmosphere represented Lordship lane, then I'm all for it.

I'd rather that than a parade of transient businesses and empty units

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Posts: 54
Joined: Aug 2011
Post: #40
30-01-2012 03:28 PM

There will be 'gentrification' but not on a significant scale. HOP high street just isn't big enough to see the change which lordship lane has over the past 10-15 years. That said, it can improve but I see no reason to compare it to East Dulwich. There are too many 'mini' high streets in this area which means the business is very fragmented and therefore less likely to attract niche outlets.

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