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Pedestrian crossing by Forest Hill Station (Perry Vale side)
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Posts: 60
Joined: Aug 2007
Post: #21
27-10-2011 06:22 PM

How can people say that the reply from Lewisham Council was good enough?

They just stated that a zebra crossing is not a viable solution, but they did not offer any solution to the actual problem that was raised.

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Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #22
27-10-2011 07:43 PM

They didn't believe the road was suitable for a crossing and gave their sensible reasons. That is why I thought it was good. The choice for us is clear. Walk to a spot where it is safer to cross or be a bit more careful when crossing the road. It has come to a pretty pass when we are asking the council to give us guidance on crossing the road.

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Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #23
30-10-2011 05:07 PM

My objection is that a proper crossing or central refuge should have been included in the original plans/development.

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Posts: 553
Joined: May 2010
Post: #24
31-10-2011 08:15 PM

Yes Sherwood I agree. For some reason they have resisted this in the past. The 'table' they rebuilt is shallower than the prevoius one and does nothing to slow the traffic.

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Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #25
31-10-2011 09:05 PM

Perhaps we would have more chance of success if we asked for a crossing or central refuge further down the road away from the bend.

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Posts: 553
Joined: May 2010
Post: #26
31-10-2011 09:42 PM

Maybe. There are really useful design features which could be employed to slow the traffic, give pedestrians a fair crack at crossing and still allow the buses and emergency vehicles to travel freely. The key to preventing safe crossing here is the speed of the traffic and at present and despite it being on a bend it is too high - except on the days when it is at a standstill and you can saunter across at will.
When the road was closed back in the summer and the traffic was re-routed along Westbourne Drive crossing along the South Circ. end was fine despite the traffic level because of the pedestrian refuge at the end of the road.

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Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #27
01-11-2011 12:08 AM

As a driver, I think this request was perfectly sensible and it is appalling that Lewisham council once again managed to slam another nail in the bad-reputation coffin for traffic engineers.
In a different borough I wouldn't be surprised if pedestrians coming out of a railway station and wanting to cross the road had the assistance of traffic lights.
Sadly, I think this may be a lost battle since their traffic department is an absolute joke.
Last year they managed to stun most residents, who attended a local ward assembly, with inane arguments and absurd logic about the traffic on Perry Vale. Not the sharpest knives in the drawer this lot!

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Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #28
01-11-2011 12:50 AM

I agree it's reasonable to expect some form of assistance to enable pedestrians to cross safely outside the station.

It is difficult to cross given the speeds people drive at.

Imagine how people with small children or low vision/ impaired hearing must feel.

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Posts: 25
Joined: Apr 2011
Post: #29
01-11-2011 01:43 PM

It would be pretty interesting to find out how fast people actually drive along the stretch of road... it is definitely NOT 30mph.

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Posts: 235
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #30
01-11-2011 02:38 PM

at the moment, it seems to be the worst of both worlds: to predestrians it - sort of - has the look of a crossing area (different coloured road surface, gap in the railing) but to motorists it is just a continuation of the road.

surely 'joined up' thinking to encourage both the use of public transport and walking would suggest that a safe place to cross by the station is logical?

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Posts: 6
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #31
01-11-2011 06:27 PM

I feel deeply honoured that Perryman thinks I deserve a reserved place in his stocks. Wouldn't it be more effective for him to catch any speeding drivers (or even pedestrians not using the road responsibly) personally, and put them there? ...instead of sensible and polite Council highways engineers who've tried to achieve the best solution?

I would be just as interested as Michael in any workable solutions to make crossing safer here. The suggestion of rumble strips on one or both sides of the raised crossing seems worth further investigation.

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Posts: 1,504
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #32
01-11-2011 06:38 PM

I agree, no need for a crossing there. As a newbie to the commuting game, and now a regular on the train that side of the tracks I have no problem crossing. A little patience and the understanding that it is not my right of way is all it takes. Mixed with a degree of common sense.

Yes we all want to get home as quickly as possible, but is 30 seconds too long to wait for a safe time and point to cross. Unless you live opposite the subway or exit, you have no immediate need to cross the roads right THERE.

A crossing will no do any good, all it will do is snarl up the traffic, make the likelyhood of traffic giving way even less likely, and make dumb and ignorant people believe they are safe to cross because the crossing said its safe.

Look up from your phones for a few seconds, remember the green cross code, and try and recall any other place you know with such a narrow road that NEEDS a crossing. Also try and picture how much space a crossing would need. Eliminating most of the parking by Finches and the cab office, making the road almost too narrow for anything other than a Smart car to pass.

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Post: #33
01-11-2011 06:41 PM

Can I make one observation. From speaking to some who drive over this raised section quite regularly, the comments of the fun light sensation it gives if you hit it without slowing, kind of indicates it poses NO insentive to slow in any way.

Traffic calming is without my topic of the day I have to say.
Maybe a chicane or something would help. Creating lighter traffic flow at any one time, and slowing traffic down a little.? Just a thought.

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Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #34
02-11-2011 09:00 AM

A minicab driver told me he could drive over speed bumps at 60 mph!

I think the answer is to pitch tents in the middle of the road. No-one will move them even if they are unocuppied!

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Cellar Door

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #35
02-11-2011 11:16 AM

Snazy Wrote:
Önow a regular on the train that side of the tracks I have no problem crossing.

Iím with you Snazy. This year Iíve been catching the trains slightly more than Iíve been riding my bicycle due to a bit of laziness creeping into my life.

Anyway, each evening when I commute home via the wonderful Overground (fantastic addition to the area!), I exit Forest Hill Station from Platform 2 down the steps onto Perry Vale.

More often than not, I pop into the excellent little Co-op. To get to the Co-op, and avoid the rather dangerous little corner of Perry Vale and Waldram Place (the Dawes for Doors corner) I cross over to Finches. Then I saunter down on the other side and stroll pass the lovely Cinnamon (formerly Kafe La and before that Foret des Amis) until I get well past that dangerous little corner and cross back over. Usually, crossing where E.J. Carpets are.

And 99% of the time Iíll be in front of anyone else who has just decanted from the train who has, bravely and might I suggest foolishly, attempted to cross over that dangerous little corner. Even though Iíve gone further by crossing Perry Vale. Twice!

Now then, Iíve been slightly quizzical and a little bit perplexed by problems crossing Perry Vale outside the station, as mentioned by a few on this thread.

I cross exactly at the spot outside of the station where it has the little poles to indicate where it is optimal to cross. I cannot ever remember having to wait very long.

Might this be a discussion about our relative levels of patience rather than our relative levels of skill at crossing the road? (Deano, Rule Brittania!)

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Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #36
02-11-2011 11:36 AM

Cellar Door,

I too follow your route when coming home.
But the view is better from the station side of the road because you can see round the bend! I think the problem comes when crossing from the other direction. Also when going to catch a train time is more crucial.

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Cellar Door

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #37
02-11-2011 01:16 PM

Hi Sherwood,

Agreed that the view is better from the station side. But not too bad from the other direction.

If you donít mind, then I'd like to mention a few experiences here...

On Saturday, I did cross from the other direction. I went to have me barnet cut at Leon and Joe's terrific barbers opposite the Co-op.

Afterwards, I stepped out of this distinguished Gentlemanís Hairdressers to let SE23 admire their fine work. I strutted towards Finches to peruse their fine selection of bicycles. And then decided Iíd amble around the excellent selection of cafes and charity stores that have sprung up on the other side of the railway line.

So, I then positioned myself at the optimal crossing point opposite the station (with the little posts) and with this thread in mind I stopped, looked and listened. I remember thinking, as a SUV raced towards the bend (Deano?), that there were excellent lines of sight. If you were there at that time on Saturday you wouldíve seen me with a mildly quizzical look on my face while I looked around me and then tried to reconcile what I remembered as issues crossing at this point from this thread. The mildly quizzical look was the result of a reconciliation error.

Oh, many, many times I've poured myself out of The All Inn One/Foresters and stumbled across Perry Vale to head to the underpass in the vague direction of home or The Hob, for one for the road. Never had a problem.
Maybe I'm a superior type of pedestrian?
Maybe I remembered Hector the Road Safety Cat?

Hector the Road Safety Cat was created to aid the teaching of road safety to children in Australia. Hector had lost eight of his nine lives due to ignorance of road safety practices, so he wasnít in a good position to make any more mistakes.

Hector the Road Safety Cat helping another bunch of Aussies cross the road.

Hector mentioned to me when he helped me cross the road in the early 1970's that I should stop, look and listen. The listen bit was pre-iPod (and pre-Walkman!). Is this part of some people's issue with this bend?

Hector was Aussie specific. I know of the Green Cross Code Man. Does he still assist us in the UK?

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Posts: 1,504
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #38
02-11-2011 01:35 PM

It appears we all follow the same sensible route in this case, how strange that 3 of us find it not so hard after all Smile

As for crossing from the Finches side to the station side, I usually cross either opposite the cab station, or further around by the entrance to CityWalk.

Like the other direction I find crossing not to be a problem.

I think most of the issue comes down to a lack of patience, or a lack of common sense, sometimes both. Yesterday after making my previous reply I paid more attention to my fellow commuters as we all crossed, and was pleased to see my observations had been correct....

Dear Commuters...

Its is NOT your god given right to walk out of the station and straight across a road which you describe as 'busy'. Please use a little common sense, STOP... LOOK... and LISTEN.

I fully appreciate that drivers act like idiots around there. But also there is another issue... Some of you naughty commuters getting picked up outside the station, and having your loved ones park illegally, blocking the line of sight for pedestrians and drivers....

All I am trying to say is, its not as simple as motorists to blame, council should make crossings, pedestrian areas etc... its about every contributing factor. Consider YOUR role in this.

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Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #39
02-11-2011 02:14 PM

My understanding is that Brian's stocks by WHSmiths will be for the impolite - people will need to make any nominations and appeals to him.

I'm sure there was a FH master plan quite a few years ago that highlighted this PV crossing point, the underpass and the crossing outside Smiths as a problem area that would be addressed.
As I remember, placing barriers to close the crossings and filling in the underpass with cement were not the preferred options then.

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Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #40
02-11-2011 02:26 PM

I'm sure many of us do consider our pedestrian roles in this.
Doesn't alter the fact that too many motorists drive too fast.

Good for your that you're able to nimbly negotiate your way across the road. I must say I always find it a faff even when I cross further down the road.

But remember not everyone is in a position to be as adept or nimble getting across!

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