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Crime and Punishment
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milliemop


Posts: 184
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #21
04-11-2011 01:19 PM

ThumbsupWell said Brian

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #22
04-11-2011 01:23 PM

Our society has changed massively since the end of judicial executions. To suggest that the increase in gun crime is linked to the end of the death penalty is simplistic in the extreme. Whilst some may agree with Brian's 'no right to life' policy (I personally don't), miscarriages of justice occur all the time and there can be no compensation for executing an innocent person.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #23
04-11-2011 01:37 PM

Andrew

There are many cases where guilt is beyond any doubt. Shipman etc. I am not suggesting executing anyone where there is a doubt.


I would accept life if it meant life , but as we know the tariff has been going down and down.

For instance the person who murdered the teacher in cold blood in North London has been out for some time and we could not even extradite him.

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Redalways


Posts: 85
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #24
04-11-2011 02:00 PM

I am not suggesting executing anyone where there is a doubt.

If there was doubt then surely they wouldn't be convicted. You cannot have degrees of doubt.

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #25
04-11-2011 02:27 PM

Thanks Redalways. I was going to make the same point. Juries, in the modern parlance, have to be sure, that the accused is guilty. They can still get it wrong.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #26
04-11-2011 02:42 PM

Regretably we beg to differ. I do hope none of your families or friends get shot.

Something needs to be done. The system is NOT working

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #27
04-11-2011 02:52 PM

Redalways took the words out of my mouth too. Burden of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt" in criminal case.

The fact is, and always will be, mistakes do happen. Let's not forget Birmingham 6, Guildford 4 etc. I imagine (I don't know as I was only a few months old at the time of the bombings) a proportion of the British public was calling for the death penalty to be reintroduced when they were convicted. That would simply have been the execution of another 10 innocent people to add to the death toll of those two awful events.

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #28
04-11-2011 03:10 PM

Hi Brian,

Once again I feel that you are drawing conclusions about this recent shooting without having all the facts.

This is not the first time that you have jumped to a conclusion without having all the facts at your disposal.

Are you doing this to help to raise awareness again for your activism for the re-introduction of the death penalty?

Your posts so far, have left a slight sour taste in my mouth. Especially, that I have not observed that you have typed a single word to express your condolences to the victim, family and friends. That actually is quite a slip for you, Sir. The first time I’ve ever observed you slipping like this.

I’m sure that you are thinking of all of them, as we all are, and I hope that you are not getting caught up in getting out your familiar message.

One final question for you, if I may?

Twice you have mentioned premeditation.

First saying “premeditated killing” (Post #15) and then going for “premeditated murder” (Post #17).

What happened to change your wording or thinking?

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #29
04-11-2011 03:30 PM

The victims of crime always have my thoughts . This does not apply to the criminals.
Sorry about my word muddle .
True I have not read the reports, but a shooting at a funeral ! Surely it is inexcusable to take a weapon to a funeral. Cannot see how that can be defended in any way.

Again my thoughts are with any innocent persons involved.

I think opinion polls suggest my views on CP are supported by 40% plus of the UK populace. I appreciate that they are not represented in that percentage in this forum.

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #30
04-11-2011 03:53 PM

brian Wrote:
I appreciate that they are not represented in that percentage in this forum.

Why do you think that is?

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #31
04-11-2011 04:03 PM

Bit of a technicality AMFM but I have served on a jury recently. Burden of proof is no longer 'beyond reasonable doubt' but is 'sure'. We were told that 'sure that the defendant was guilty' was more readily understood by most people than that the defendant was guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'. The level of proof is not supposed to have changed.

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #32
04-11-2011 05:01 PM

Andrewr - I'm a lawyer (not a criminal one, addmittedly), so I cling to the old terminology! my criminal law lectures are a bit of a distant memory!

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #33
04-11-2011 05:25 PM

Quote:
I think opinion polls suggest my views on CP are supported by 40% plus of the UK populace.


Which, of course, means 60% don't.

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Jane_D


Posts: 189
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #34
04-11-2011 05:52 PM

This online Texas newspaper suggests that crime is unusally high in Texas, despite being the state being the biggest user of the death penalty and generally 'tough on crime':

http://www.statesman.com/opinion/crimina...57854.html

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #35
04-11-2011 11:17 PM

I did say approx 40% . Does not mean the other 60% all opposed. Many don't knows.

UNISON got 22% and claiming a great victory.

Think of all the money Texas saves.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #36
17-11-2011 05:58 PM

[Moved from SE23 Topics > Intruders in Garden, Garthorne Road]
_____________

Surely barbed wire more effective,

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Andy


Posts: 57
Joined: Feb 2005
Post: #37
18-11-2011 09:54 AM

And a machine gun post

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Fish Face


Posts: 135
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #38
18-11-2011 11:38 AM

Maybe booby-trap the shed with a small explosive device.
(Am I allowed to say 'booby' on here?)

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oryx


Posts: 204
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #39
20-11-2011 05:09 PM

Does anyone know how effective barbed wire is? According to a friend of ours potential thieves/intruders will just throw a thick coat over it and carry on intruding/thieving/other unsavoury business!

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sandy


Posts: 190
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #40
20-11-2011 05:20 PM

Oh, wasn't that ironic?

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