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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #241
25-07-2012 05:21 PM

Thank you very much DeedeeVonNoodle for grabbing that info from the LCCís facebook page. That ties in with what Iíve been reading on the bit of the Get Ahead of the Games website about the roads.

Crikey! Iíve been seeing this ďGet Ahead of the GamesĒ thingy being advertised for months. And I have popped onto it for 5 minutes here and there. Always thinking, though, Iíd come back to it and really understand what I need to know.

But this morning, as things kicked up another gear and with barely 48 hours or so before the start, I decided to give it a good thorough 10 or 15 minutes.

Wow, there is a lot of information!

In this day, and at my old age, I want a two sentence summary. Just for me. Especially tailored for my bicycle ride from SE23 to Marylebone. Which has been whittled down from thousands of pages and scores of maps. Unfortunately, I didnít find that magic button on their website.

The number of terms that I had to understand (Olympic Route Network (ORN), Paralympic Route Network (PRN), Games Lanes etc) made me feel a little bit faint. I then threw my hands up in the air and would have laid down in a dark room, but the meditation/prayer room here at the office was already being used. Probably by another poor cyclist.

So, I then thought of a cunning plan around all of thisÖI asked a work mate, who happens to be an Olympic Volunteer, if it was too late to join the Team GB Cycling Squad so I could use any lane I wanted. That seemed a slightly easier option. He said that I probably needed some proper training. A decent bike. Have a British Passport. And to give up cigarettes. Amongst many other things.

But I donít have a British Passport. Unfortunately.

My Australian Passport should still give me a chance if the Aussies need a last minute addition to the team. If there happens to be an Olympic Road Cycling Event from SE23 to Marylebone, then Iíve been doing it for 11 years now. And I know a few short cuts.

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #242
23-04-2013 06:40 PM

I wanted to thank the cyclist who stopped to call the police this evening after an incident on London Road involving another cyclist who was stopped cycling along the pavement by two 80 year old men. Unfortunately one of the men ended up with a small cut on his hand (with blood coming out) when the pavement cyclist tried to push his way directly through them.

With the good weather comes the bad cyclists, who don't care about pedestrians and think that "not having a helmet" gives them the right to "ride on the pavement, just like children do". Let's remember that most cyclists (with or without helmets) do not ride on the pavement and are considerate to other people.

Well done to all the responsible cyclists, I have a lot of admiration for you.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #243
23-04-2013 07:42 PM

Yes - the fair-weather/new cyclists are all out again. While not condoning pavement cycling, some will be doing it on certain stretches because they are not yet confident enough on all stretches of road. Can I urge any new cyclists out there that doing some cycle training is really worthwhile in terms of getting your confidence up and learning how to deal with tricky situations. You'll never need the pavement again!

Check your local council pages for where you work and where you live since many inner London councils offer the cycle training for free or at a very subsidised level. It's usually one-on-one and they'll often cycle your commute route with you and point out how to get round hazards etc.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #244
23-04-2013 08:01 PM

And I meant to say shame on the pavement cyclist that michael mentioned for pushing past elderly pedestrians. Pedestrians do have right of way - and even on legally shared pavements, you do need to travel at an appropriate speed (i.e. walking speed if there are people around) and give them precedence. A cheery polite 'excuse me' and people will usually step to one side to allow you to pass. If it's very busy, then getting off and pushing will garner you a little goodwill and won't slow you up all that much.

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #245
05-05-2013 01:37 PM

Applespider: "Pedestrians do have right of way"

Do we, indeed? I think you'll find we have more than that.

Whoops!

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #246
13-05-2013 06:52 PM

Michael: "Let's remember that most cyclists (with or without helmets) do not ride on the pavement and are considerate to other people."

I just find this patronising, as it doesn't tally with what I see. At the weekend I waited for 5 minutes for a bus outside the Capitol, during which time I saw five cyclists. Every one of them either rode on the pavement, jumped the lights, or both.

Is this a record? I doubt it.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #247
14-05-2013 05:13 PM

Sounds like a broken record to me!
Get yourself a bike hillsideresident and get some air in your lungs!
However dreadful you were, you would not be a hundredth as anti social as the average motorist around here.

(note to the so called professional bus driver out side the co-op earlier today: you are not allowed to just park up on the pedestrian/cycle crossing. Are we meant to climb through your windows to get across?)

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #248
14-05-2013 10:22 PM

You might as well get used to it. These are legitimate issues for pedestrians, and will continue to be until they're solved, which either means cyclists growing up, or licencing. In other words, licencing.

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #249
15-05-2013 02:17 PM

Hi hillsideresident,

Over the years Iíve very much enjoyed reading your posts on this forum. I especially would like to thank you for putting up the information about Prince the Rinseís funeral last month. I heard that it was extremely well attended. ďPacked to the raftersĒ was a comment I heard very often from those that attended.

Iíve been following you particularly on this thread and the Granny spinners thread. Indeed, we have discussed various aspects of licensing on both.

You have very strong views around this. Am I right in thinking that you once mentioned that you were injured by a cyclist riding on a pavement? Or was that someone else on here?

Oh, you might remember that I wrote in response to your question about the best strategy of dealing with cyclists that ride on the pavement about two years ago. Within that post I wrote also, ďIíve not noticed an increase in pavement cycling. Nor a discernible decrease.Ē Iím out on the pavement (sans cycle) most days. And still cycling to Marylebone, when I can. Iím still not seeing what you are seeing.

So, hence, Iím now wondering if something has happened in the past to you, that is colouring the present?

One final thingy, I still chuckle at the term ďpsycholistĒ that you introduced me to way back when. Thanks again!

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #250
15-05-2013 07:41 PM

Trauma-induced hallucinations! Well, I hadn't thought of that. How would I know?

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #251
16-05-2013 11:41 AM

hillsideresident Wrote:
Trauma-induced hallucinations! Well, I hadn't thought of that. How would I know?

Ha! Indeed. But what if you were triggered into a trauma response every time you saw a cyclist riding on a pavement?

That would be terrible.

Without delving too far into my personal life, I experience trauma. Typically, I lose the ability to move my arms and legs and I go into vomiting. This can happen on a daily basis. It is not something Iíd want anyone to go through. My triggers are not to do with seeing cyclists on a pavement. I would feel incredibly sad for someone who was triggered by that.

Like I said in yesterdayís post on this thread I have very much enjoyed reading your posts on this forum. And your response yesterday is no exception.

Apart from writing on here about licensing cyclists, do you promote this idea elsewhere?

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #252
16-05-2013 02:08 PM

Just to keep everybody happy I thought I should post this link:
http://goo.gl/maps/naizH
One of these cyclists is about to stop at a zebra crossing to allow a pedestrian to cross, the other is going to go down the pavement towards a woman and buggy.
Licensing would not make the slightest difference to either of these cyclists, even if you were to assume that they both had a license.
Incidentally, it would have been better if the camera car had stopped before the zebra crossing when a pedestrian is already starting to cross.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #253
16-05-2013 08:02 PM

Yeah, and look at this scoundrel

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #254
16-05-2013 08:04 PM

Not you, is it?

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #255
16-05-2013 08:35 PM

No trauma, just incremental disdain. Hasn't yet led to vomiting, but what a comment that would be!

Licensing is fairly well-known system for helping to police road users. Although I admit it hasn't stopped the google van from driving straight over the chap's toes on the crossing.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #256
16-05-2013 09:44 PM

Incremental disdain? It seems more to be extreme prejudice against anyone on two wheels in recent months. I'd like to consider myself one of the 'good girls' on my bike. I stop at lights, I stop at zebras, I don't use the pavement, I have lots of lights, I have reflective things and a helmet, I don't weave in and out of traffic, I hand signal when I turn, I've been to training, I'm even insured for 3rd party liability. And yet, when I'm pointing out above that cyclists should give way to pedestrians even on shared use paths, you still found something to complain about in an antagonistic way.

Licensing and insurance requirements haven't stopped poor driving; the good ones comply and the bad ones drive regardless even when legally disqualified and uninsured. The same would happen with cyclists - the good ones follow rules now; the bad ones don't. I'd welcome better policing of bad cycling now just as I'd welcome better policing of bad driving. It would make the streets a safer place for all of us.

The crazy thing about the antagonism between pedestrians and cyclists is that we have bigger common threats than each other. Together, we are a bigger group than motorists at many crossing points and junctions. We should be lobbying together for safer streets designed to suit us rather than the status quo which emphasises motorised traffic speed and flow at the expense of those not surrounded by a tonne of metal.

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #257
16-05-2013 10:34 PM

I have a problem with selfish cyclists, and with those who lazily insist there isnít a problem. The remainder (and there are plenty) I have no issue with at all, and I am bored, bored, bored with having that point misrepresented again and again by people who donít read what I write.

For the millionth time, I rode all over London for twenty-odd years (on a Gillott, if youíre interested), and I know perfectly well what Iím talking about. I am sick of seeing grown men, in particular, on the pavement, behaving like spoilt children. I donít see anything wrong with saying so, and I donít see anything wrong with saying that cyclists should be licensed. A lot of other pedestrians would agree on both points. Neither view is irrational.

I have no concerns about cars at all, as they are on the road and I am on the pavement. Hence unless I am very stupid or unlucky they are no problem to me. Even cars that jump red lights are annoying, not dangerous, since one waits for them to pass. Cyclists who jump red lights are apt to do it after the cars have stopped and one is no longer checking the flow of traffic.

In your previous post you referred to the incident that Michael raised, which was on the pavement, and you said that pedestrians had right of way. Then you went on to talk about shared pavements. In other words, pedestrians have right of way on ordinary pavements. No we donít. We have the whole thing. If you meant to refer to shared pavements, then thatís fine, but that meaning was hardly clear.

I havenít posted on this for a long time, and it was not me that restarted the thread. But any criticism of any cyclists seems to be too much for some.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #258
17-05-2013 09:25 AM

Well no, lets be clear, nobody is "lazily insisting there isn't a problem" and I don't think anybody has denied that some people cycle badly (RLJing, pavement cycling, etc).

There has, however, been a quite reasonable disagreement as to the scale of the problem. Opponents to the licensing of cyclists debate that the scale of the problem does not justify that level of response. I've personally seen no evidence here, or elsewhere, to convince me it is a rational, effective and justifiable response to 'the problem'.

I understand your statement that, as a pedestrian, you are not worried about cars on pavements so I also understand why you focus on pavement cycling. I know (lies, damned lies and) statistics aren't everything and personal experience does count too but, on face value the stats don't really back you up.

I'm conscious that the links I'm about to post below are for a cycling organisation but the data they reference is independent and, in my opinion thoughtfully (rather than lazily or creatively) presented.

Pedestrians - pages 2 and 3 particularly
Cyclist Behaviour - also has a section on the licensing subject

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #259
17-05-2013 12:14 PM

Thank you very much IWereAbsolutelyFuming.

Over the years Iíve also very much enjoyed your grounded and rational responses on this and other threads relating to cycling. (And much else.)

You put me in mind of a mate of mine who occasionally lectures at one the big London Universities. He is an absolute proponent of Georg Hegel and the practice of Dialectical Method.

My deepest wish is to be able to construct a method of argument, like yours, for resolving disagreement.

Once upon a time, I used to be briefly involved in the fledgling Indian Ocean Centre for Peace Studies at Curtin University. Anyway, I used to meet with their Professors to sell these degrees to the eager students of South East Asia. The level of discourse from you reminds me of them.

Thank you very much. Oh, look at me, Iím still learning and Iím only just edging towards my first half century.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #260
17-05-2013 12:20 PM

Cheers...oh, hang on, am I the Aussie Professor or the SE Asian student?

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