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Riots in London
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Sherwood


Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #81
10-08-2011 05:14 PM

He has pleaded guilty in a magistrates court, which can give a maximum sentence of 6 months. The court has referred him to the Crown Court. It seems likely that his sentence will be more than 6 months in prison.
A criminal conviction will also impact on his CRB check. Therefore, he may not be allowed to work with children.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #82
10-08-2011 05:44 PM

Thanks Sherwood. Surely would not be able to be with children not maybe?

Unfortunately most to the rioters are from the underclass and could not careless about getting a job.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #83
10-08-2011 08:56 PM

I'm not entirely sure I want the looters to go to prison. Sure, they lose their liberty but they get to hang with their mates, the kudos of being a con, time to work out at the prison gym and the chance to learn lots of other useful criminal tricks and contacts. And it alienates them even more from their communities.

I'd far rather they got some meaningful local community service which was enforced and might make them appreciate some hard work, see what local businesses and people are really like and try to engender some community spirit. After all, if you've spent all day painting a wall and some toerag then comes along and tags it, you might finally appreciate partly why people are so outraged about your actions.

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Poppy9560


Posts: 273
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #84
10-08-2011 09:06 PM

Aplespider that is a nice idea in an ideal world but would it work in reality?

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #85
10-08-2011 09:15 PM

Probably not - which is why I said if it could be enforced.

But I don't think prison will work either. It's a deterrent to you and I but a badge of honour to some.

I think some of the naming and shaming going on is worthwhile particularly where people did appear to have jobs and colleagues. But again, in some places, getting your name listed is going to be something to boast about... supposing of course, you can read.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #86
10-08-2011 10:26 PM

Maybe they should go to a real prison where there are no gym's, where they have to work to earn privelages, where they have no TV's, Playstations or any other distractions other than focusing on the crime they commited. Maybe then they wont want to reoffend and maybe their friends may look at them and think "actually, I dont want to be there" and shy away from crime.

Every person out there has a choice to make, lets hope people start making the right ones.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #87
11-08-2011 07:43 AM

One American prison governor makes them wear pink underwear.

Brian,
It is almost certain that the criminal conviction will make him unemployable in a school. Also I expect his current contract to be terminated when he fails to turn up for work in September!

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Merlin


Posts: 83
Joined: May 2010
Post: #88
11-08-2011 09:14 AM

I'm not sure that these 'Daily Mail' prisons really exist. Having your liberty taken away, not having freedom of movement, not being with loved ones, following rules and routine etc is a punishment, not a holiday. A criminal record WILL have an impact on the rest of your life and the way you are viewed.

Some people do see a spell in prison as a badge of honour - but they are clearly idiots and no amount of pink pants, community service or similar tactics will change that. Only time, when their peers drift off, start familes, get jobs or get killed will they realise how meaningless their life has been.

Probation and community service is basically a joke - I speak from experience (work, not life) where you dont even have to turn up or do the hours to get it signed off as completed.

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Bcm


Posts: 187
Joined: May 2010
Post: #89
11-08-2011 09:43 AM

I am afraid to say that a criminal record will not necessarily impact you at all. You only have to disclose the presence of a criminal record if applying for a job:

1. as an accountant or barrister
2. in the police
3. working with children or vulnerable adults
4. relating to the administration of justice or financial regulation

And how many smaller firms actually bother checking this information? I am certain it is far from universal.

Maybe a tattoo on the forehead saying "I am a criminal" is the way forward... just kidding (i think).

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Merlin


Posts: 83
Joined: May 2010
Post: #90
11-08-2011 10:29 AM

Having a criminal record not only impacts your vocational choices, it impacts on the way you are viewed (even within your family), it can also dictate the countries you are permitted to visit.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #91
11-08-2011 11:06 AM

Except that if the criminal record causes no shame or is the norm in your family and friends, and you don't think you are ever likely to get a decent job or afford to go to a country that requires a clean record for entry, that doesn't make it the deterrent it would be to you or me.

I agree that existing community service is poorly managed for lots of reasons but for the looters who followed the herd, if there was a more enforceable useful version, I think it would do more good than putting them in prison for a few weeks. For those instigating the break ins and arsonists, then yes, jail is appropriate but probably won't stop them offending again on release.

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mgmonkey


Posts: 96
Joined: May 2009
Post: #92
11-08-2011 02:12 PM

Yes, sacked.

Then he can claim benefits.

No, we don't want that either.

Perhaps he could make money illegally?

No, that's bad too.

How about he's made homeless, that would be good!

Then he'd be selling Big Issue outside Sainsburys, so that won't work either.

Capital Punishment! That's HAS to be the answer. 32" TV, lose you life. Can't say fairer than that.

Prison on milk and water? Throw away the key! Costs more than benefits I think.

How about hoping he is one of the reasonably large percentage that learns that he was wrong, completed his sentence/pays his fines/does his comumunity service, then continues to work, pays taxes towards society and never does it again?

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Jon Lloyd


Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #93
11-08-2011 04:43 PM

Let's hope so. It will probably not mean he will ever stop being a greedy ****** though!

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #94
11-08-2011 07:26 PM

Mr Monkey
If you are correct wonderful. It would be great.

Not sure I have your faith.

Chain gang work parties like Alabama might help.

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oryx


Posts: 204
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #95
11-08-2011 10:19 PM

I agree with mgmonkeys last sentence.

I think there should be heavy prison sentences for those who have assaulted others, committed arson or endangered lives, and there should be hefty community penalties for the looters.

There is no point in making anyone homeless or stopping their benefits as it will only compound the problem. Also, it's an automatic assumption that rioters will be social housing tenants/on benefits which isn't necessarily true (early reports of those appearing in court mention working people). It also tars social housing residents/benefit claimants (most of whom are decent and law-abiding) with the same brush.

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mrcee


Posts: 128
Joined: May 2010
Post: #96
12-08-2011 08:06 AM

Oryx, just to support your last paragraph

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ds-newsxml

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #97
12-08-2011 09:04 AM

I am sorry they should lose social housing if convicted. What happens to them is their problem.

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #98
12-08-2011 09:39 AM

The penalty should be the same whatever your background. It is not acceptable for one looter to go to jail and then lose their house, and for another to go to jail and then return to their mansion in Orpington.
So if you are going to impose draconian punishments on people on social housing, the same should apply to the rich.

If somebody from a middle-class or rich family goes out looting for the evening, then their family house, businesses, and assets should be sold off to pay for the damage, prison time, police time, court time etc. Anything left can be use to help with subsidised housing for families without convicted criminals.

Does that seem fair?

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #99
12-08-2011 10:49 AM

That sounds fair - unless someone is one of these banker thieves who have destroyed far more than a few shops - they obviously should keep all their millions.

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #100
12-08-2011 12:15 PM

Perryman Wrote:
That sounds fair - unless someone is one of these banker thieves who have destroyed far more than a few shops - they obviously should keep all their millions.


Thieves?

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