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Riots in London
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seangarvin


Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #41
08-08-2011 11:42 PM

Walked home from FH station bout half an hour ago. Not a peep. Also came from highbury. Not a peep. Lots of misreporting going on...

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #42
08-08-2011 11:44 PM

Good news. I also hadn;t realised we had a Maplins so learned something useful this evening.

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eastofthetrack


Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #43
09-08-2011 07:17 AM

Looting in Maplin? The good old regulars in the Railway Telegraph would have sorted them out!

All these social networking rumours are not helpful. Take care everyone.

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spartan army


Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #44
09-08-2011 07:30 AM

PVP, please dont make excuses for the behaviour of these idiots. It is an insult to the poor kids with no future that stayed at home last night and did not go around knicking trainers and flat screens. These kids are not exactly starving or having to walk 5 days just for water. Stop making excuses. The only thing these kids are deprived of is discipline.

These are the kids

who walk around with their trousers half way down their a***s
who play music on their mobile phone loudspeakers on the bus
who eat chicken and drop the bones and associated rubbish anywhere
who can barely speak properly
who go around in gangs frightening people
who carry knives and will use them
who gang rape girls
who cause disruption in class that effects the education of others

The one thing you are right on is that they dont suddenly come criminally minded. This culture has been happening, building up and getting worse for years. unfortunately the reaction to the scarman and mcpherson reports has probably done more harm that good. The softly softly approach has gone on for far too long.

As I said discipline is the answer and its going to take some seriously tough discipline to win the streets back.

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seangarvin


Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #45
09-08-2011 07:54 AM

Wow. A big jump from loose-wasted jeans to stabbing rapists there.

Quote:
Discipline is certainly part of what's needed to get things on control again. But it ignores what's going on, and it's not simple to define.

When I think about why I wouldn't, for example, loot Maplins, it might because I want there to be a Maplins in Forest Hill. I want there to be businesses to support the community and local employment etc. If I was in a situation where I could never even get a job in Maplins, let alone buy things from there, and that had to be accepted as my life (not just unemployed for a few months or a year, unemployable for a long time), then I'd be a lot angrier that I had been economically segregated from the society I grew up in. Multiply this feeling by a factor unknown to me, and we have *part* of what's happening here.

Not endorsing what's happening, but beating the kids back into their cages or filling up prison cells won't fix much. It may even make things worse.

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seangarvin


Posts: 8
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #46
09-08-2011 07:55 AM

Not sure why a lot of my post went in as a quote. I suppose that's what I get for typing on my phone...

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Bcm


Posts: 187
Joined: May 2010
Post: #47
09-08-2011 08:46 AM

Will we standby idle should these criminals decide to loot forest hill or Honor oak tonight? I am all for getting out there and defending our town, and the livelihoods of our neighbours. we cannot rely on a police force that is overstretched and exhausted. Is anyone else of the same opinion, and if so can we organise our little resistance in time for thus evening?

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #48
09-08-2011 09:00 AM

I don't support any call for vigilantism, but I do think that we should carry on life as normal, which means patronising our local shops, restaurants and bars and NOT all barricading ourselves in our homes by early evening. There are more of us than there are of them. Empty streets are just an invitation to opportunistic criminals.

And before you all say, that's all well and good, but I need to protect my family, let me just say that I grew up in Belfast in the 1970s and 1980s and my parents sent me to school through riots and barricades, because the one thing you don't do is give in to bullies.

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eastofthetrack


Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #49
09-08-2011 09:05 AM

One of the front windows was smashed at Maplin when I passed this morning and a squad car sitting out the front. Well done, your Mum must be so proud of you.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #50
09-08-2011 09:35 AM

The Met are calling up all special constables.

The police seem to be greatly outnumbered in some of the situations I have sen on television.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #51
09-08-2011 10:39 AM

I'm absolutely horrified by events unfolding over the last couple of nights. Utter lawlessness - and getting scarily close to home.

Agree with Spartan Army.

The lack respect for authority has been building in this country for years. Lack of politeness e.g. giving up your seat on the bus may seem trivial, but people (kids who are now adults and now their kids) have been allowed to get away with progressively more and more until today when they seem to think that it's alright to help themselves to goods from shops, set them on fire and generally run riot.

Seangarvin says it's a big jump from loose-waisted jeans to rapist, but that's just symptomatic of the general situation.

Here's a quote from the BBC website, which says it all:

Quote:
Chris is a Met police office from south london. He has cancelled his holiday to help with the crisis. He tells BBC 5 live that "morale is high" among his colleagues. "The people who were out on the streets looting, are the people we've been arresting time and time again and have been in front of the courts and walked. This is happening as a result of our failure of instilling disclipine."


Apart from tutting on a forum, I'm at a loss for a solution and maybe wiser heads can come up with one. Doubtless money needs to spent, but in the right places and local authorities have been emasculated by the cuts to the bone and are powerless to address the bigger picture and can only nibble at the edges.

BRING BACK NATIONAL SERVICE! (sorry, brief Brian moment there....)

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Triangle


Posts: 133
Joined: May 2007
Post: #52
09-08-2011 10:53 AM

At the very least, those arrested while caught in the act should now be made to clear up what they've trashed.

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Tinkerbell


Posts: 358
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #53
09-08-2011 11:08 AM

I guess that is unlikely to happen, much as I'd like to see them having to take responsibility for their actions. A lot of them may not even be old enough to be prosecuted.

A friend of mine who lives in Croydon got together with other locals this morning, helping with the clear out and helping businesses in the area to get back to normal. Not sure if anything like that is happening in HOP/FH/Catford, or whether it's actually needed (since damage was on a smaller scale). But I'd be happy to help if needed!

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Tinkerbell


Posts: 358
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #54
09-08-2011 11:17 AM

Bcm's idea is interesting. I would not condone active "resistance" or trying to fight back looters in the same way that locals have attempted in Dalston, and I'm sure the Police wouldn't either.

But I do wonder, if a large enough group of adult local residents (perhaps with some reflective vests or other gear that makes them easy to distinguish) was to simply stand along the high street, in front of every shop, with a cup of tea/mulled wine (it is cold enough for that, after all) and chatting to the person next to them, would these kids really try to attack? I very much doubt it. After all, they are still someone's son or daughter...

Anyway. Just a thought. (must get that last bottle of mulled wine out of the kitchen cupboard...)

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #55
09-08-2011 11:42 AM

As I said Sunday and Monday looters should be shot. The army should be brought to London .
At the moment the police seem to be mere spectators to the looting.

If shooting fior some strange reason is considered to harsh then CS Gas and plastic bullets should be the least on offer to the police and army.
I do not care if any looter gets hurt or killed. Does anyone else.

This will go on and on until harsh measures are put in place. Why not today rather than wait another few days.

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TND


Posts: 14
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #56
09-08-2011 11:44 AM

Tinkerbell, sadly I fear that they would Crying. When the crowd is wound up like that and the atmosphere is aggressive, they will not back down very easily. They are out to fight, score some loot and damage what they can...even if 'just' to show off and look hard in front of their mates. A friend's friend got pulled of his scooter trying to drive through Camberwell last night. He was hit a few times and has a sprained wrist. This mob mentality is very scary and sad. I hope they stay away tonight...both in SE23 and everywhere else in the country.

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Katie H-M


Posts: 2
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #57
09-08-2011 11:45 AM

As away from home at the moment just Googled to find out if Forest Hill had escaped the rioting and this came up on the" Mail on Line"
"While in the busy shopping street of Green Street, in FOREST HILL , there were reports that 400 young Asian men had chased off up to 150 rioters."
I think they mean Forest Gate don't they?
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z1UWiPDOag

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #58
09-08-2011 11:58 AM

While there may be a few people interested in smashing up shops, there are many more people who care about the local area. SE23.com has been busier in the last 24 hours than at any other time, with over 1,800 people viewing the forum.

I really hope that many of you will look at ways to improve the local area, and a good place to start is with the Forest Hill ward assembly this Sunday, where we will be voting on 17 projects designed to improve the local area with the 45,000 made available by Lewisham Council for the ward. Details are on http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php...9#pid39169

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admin
Administrator

Posts: 394
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #59
09-08-2011 11:58 AM

SE23.com has received the following statement from Lewisham Borough Police Commander, Detective Chief Superintendent Jeremy Burton:

Quote:
As you will be aware, Lewisham was subjected to a wave of copycat violence yesterday that engulfed a number of other London boroughs.
Yesterday afternoon a significant number of people congregated initially around Lewisham Town Centre. The disorder, which was sporadic, then spread to a number of areas including Deptford, Catford, Loampit Vale and New Cross and a number of shops were looted and vandalised.
With the support of additional officers the disorder was contained within these areas.
Investigations are continuing and we shall pursue those responsible with vigour.
This is a fast moving situation which brings many challenges however, community engagement and support is vital as we come to terms with what has happened, not only in Lewisham but across the Capital.
We are doing everything we can to minimise the risk to the public and to prevent further disorder.
We will be actively working with our communities and partners to try to put an end to the spontaneous violence, but in order to do that I must reiterate the message given last night, by the Acting Commissioner Tim Godwin, that there is still a need for parents and guardians to know where their children are.
Spectators have also hampered the work of police operations and emergency services, as well as putting themselves at risk. I would ask that those spectators leave the emergency services to carry out their work unhindered.
We need to work together to bring a speedy end to this current situation.
Whatever the reasons are behind what has been happening, what we have seen is sheer and utter criminality, which is affecting the lives of the public, local businesses and our community. We will be conducting a thorough criminal investigation and will bring offenders to justice.
I am proud of the dedication and professionalism that my officers and staff have displayed in the face of unprecedented and extreme levels of violence.
We continue to work hard to keep Lewisham safe from harm but evermore acute is the need for strong leadership within our communities, to support us in this endeavour.

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #60
09-08-2011 12:05 PM

Yes, the Daily Mail piece actually refers to Forest Gate. Not an uncommon mistake, I find.

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