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Man Hit at FH Station
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Posts: 67
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #1
22-02-2008 11:20 PM

Did anyone see the man that got hit this morning by another, because he was meant to of pushed the other guy when he got off. It happened this morning when the 0811 was only 4 carriages and the 0821 was late! I think people where desperate to get on the late 0821.
It was quite violent.

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Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #2
23-02-2008 11:17 AM

That's terrible. I didn't see it, but I've seen some pretty aggressive goings on at HOP when the train gets in (often too full by the time it gets to us)

I wrote to Southern about it (and got a reply, though it wasn't all too helpful)

Maybe its worth it if we all email/phone them about it. I said it was only a matter of time before someone got seriously hurt. Two women almost had a fist fight on one train I was on.

The argument from the woman from Southern trains was that there's just no more rolling stock so to get more carriages or more trains they'd have to take it away from somewhere else. Considering the line is now carrying the ELL excess, it's not surprising its bursting at the seams.

Anyway, can't do any harm to tell them, I might write again and cc our MPs.

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Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #3
23-02-2008 12:47 PM

It doesnt surprise me however actual acts of violence rather than just verbal abuse seem to be on the increase - and amongst what are relatively well off working people usually. A few years ago I went to court as a witness to such an attack where a pregnant woman was pushed around by 2 again, relatively well off and educated people. They both got a suspended sentence of 2 years.Their behaviour was particularly bad and unacceptable however I wonder how much it will take to unleash the same in most of us when travelling conditions are really dire.

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Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #4
23-02-2008 04:08 PM

Meet the managers
This Thursday 28th February from 7:30am.
Please take a few minutes to stop and speak to them if you are passing through London Bridge.

Situations such as the one described above are an unfortunate result of the frustrations felt by all commuters every morning. Southern failed to predict the increased level of use with the closure of the East London Line (despite predictions from user groups and community organisations) and have failed to find any solutions to the facts on the ground despite many of us making them aware. Their response that the added more coaches in 2005-2006 does not address the situation that began on 22nd December 2007 with the closure of ELL.

It is no good saying there is nothing they can do, there are numerous things they can do:

- Stop some of the fast trains at New Cross Gate on the fast line
- Add extra carriages to our line so that there are no longer 6 carriage trains during the peak services (these carriages may need to come from other services that are less crowded or they could bring back all of the slam door carriages that they withdrew from service a couple of years ago)
- Add additional stops to the services that run fast from Forest Hill to New Cross Gate, to provide more chance for the people of Honor Oak Park and Brockley to get on a train
- Run 12 carriage trains in the morning peak with the front or back of the train only stopping at alternate stations (passengers requiring HOP, Brockley, New X Gate should only use the rear 8 coaches, passengers for FH, Sydenham only the front 8 coaches). This would only work for the trains that arrive on platforms 8-13 at London Bridge
- Increase the number of British Transport Police on platforms at HOP and Brockley to address the increased incidents of pushing, verbal abuse, and physical assaults that are taking place. These (usually low level incidents) make travelling by train more stressful for everybody
- Hold people at the ticket offices rather than allowing them on to the platforms when trains are seriously overcrowded

If Southern are not seen to be addressing these issues then I hope they will accept liability when the inevitable heart attack/miscarriage/injury caused by falling between the platform and the train, happens.

But we should also do our bit:
- make sure people move right down the carriages, don't be afraid to ask
- when somebody does ask another person to move down, back them up and thank them for helping their fellow passengers
- look out for people who may be in distress and be prepared to give up your seat

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Posts: 51
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #5
23-02-2008 05:35 PM

This must be what they call 'rail rage' !! Cursing

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Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #6
23-02-2008 10:54 PM

Does this explain why there were ticket inspectors at Forest Hill station on Friday afternoon?
I have never seen aticket inspector there before.

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Posts: 384
Joined: May 2004
Post: #7
24-02-2008 09:35 AM

Good heavens, I was going to say something typically BD about how I prefer the wind, rain, abuse, pot holes and bendy buses on my cycle to work but then thought such off-track(!) remarks were unfair to Michael's constructive comments.

But do things really kick-off due to frustration on what, surely, is a less than half an hour commute by rail? BD uses rush hour public transport a couple of times a month, but when he moans at colleagues they take no notice, as from his perspective regular users are immune to the day in day out problems. And as I thought we all agreed, say compared to the Northern Line and Central line, levels of overcrowding on the overground are considerably lower. In deed BD has had some horribly long inter-city experiences where he has witnessed a sort of blitz spirit and love and peace.

BD - still half asleep

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Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #8
28-02-2008 10:59 AM

It is getting rather nasty in the mornings now, especially when the trains don't run to time and are half the length they should be. Case in point being that twice in the last week the 8.13 from HOP has been a four coach instead an eight coach.

Two days ago, I got elbowed in the forehead trying to get on the train! And several times now I've been crammed up against someone's armpit and standing on one foot as I'm only five foot and so many people were trying to get on the train that I could only stand on one leg! Scared

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Posts: 138
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #9
28-02-2008 11:21 AM

The way that train lengths are decided is a little bizzare to me. I tend to travel in early and get home early, but occassionally have to travel in peak time and more often than not the trains are 6 carriages during the peak.

On my normal commute the 07:00 is 8 carriages and I always get a seat at FH, and most people do all the way to LB. Coming home again its a bit strange. I sometimes get the 16:15 to Guildford which is 4 carriages and normally pretty full, but if I miss that I catch the 16:24 to Victoria which is 6 carriages and empty

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Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #10
28-02-2008 12:49 PM

How did this morning go with the managers? I was running late and missed getting it out my system!

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Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
28-02-2008 09:54 PM

I stopped briefly but wasn't very impressed (or awake). I got some good information from Southern Rail via email:

Extract from my email:
1. You previously responded on the subject of timetables in the station at Forest Hill. As yet, none have been reinstated as you told us would be the case.

2. A number of years ago Southern helped make the station safer by painting yellow lines on the edges of steps on the footbridge and the exit stairs from platform 2. Over time these lines have worn away and could do with being refreshed.

3. Quite a specific issues; The 19:05 train from London Bridge never announces that it will stop at Honor Oak Park but tells passengers that they are approaching Forest Hill (and tells them again when it does get to the real Forest Hill). This is confusing for passengers who are alighting at Honor Oak Park and at Forest Hill. This only appears to be a problem with the 19:05 but is a consistent problem.

Southern Rail Wrote:
1. We will add timetables to the booking hall, just getting them reprinted. They are available on both platforms at the moment.
2. The yellow lines were being repainted on the weekend just gone so that should be complete or about complete.
3. The 1905 is the only train that follows the route ?London Bridge to Epsom Downs? with the stopping pattern it has. When the Passenger Information System database was populated with all the many possible routes, this route has been coded without including Honour Oak Park. So, when the driver genuinely picks the correct route at the start of the journey it misses out Honor Oak Park as it is not included on this particular element of the database. This is an oversight and it is now on the list of changes to be made and uploaded to all trains that run in the South London area. Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention.

Other information glenned:
There are now only 2 trains in the morning peak hours that are 6 carriages long (7:48am and 8:35am). This is apparently due to their Passenger Loading Devices telling them where the most demand is across the whole network.

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