They were coming in so freakin low from 5.30 this morning. ON A SUNDAY. Am I wrong thinking final approaches aren't permitted unti 6am?

I have no idea but from what I understand the Air Lobby is very powerful with HMG.
I am not sure the fact that it was Sunday makes and difference although would be nice to think it did.
Good Luck but suspect you will be wasting your time. I have not flown since 1994 so at least I am not hypocritical.

I'm pretty sure that the first scheduled flights into Heathrow are well before 6am. IIRC, there's a BA flight from Hong Kong that's scheduled to arrive around 5am. So if there's a law against it, it obviously doesn't apply at Heathrow - not sure about City.

First one listed into City on a Monday morning is 0710 from Antwerp.

I did quite a lot of research into flights into Heathrow a couple of years ago. Heathrow never closes but the number of flights they are allowed during the night (basically 11pm to 6am if I remember rightly) is very limited. In practice they seem to use most of ther night time allowance beteween obout 0430 and 0530. This is most noticeable during the summer when people have their windows open. It is also only noticeable round here if they are landing to the west - which they do the majority of the time although the strange weather patterns recently have meant quite a lot of quiet days as they approach to the east.

City arrivals are only noticeable here it they are landing to the east - which I'd guess they only do around 30% (or less) of the time. When I really notice the planes is when Heathrow is landing to the west and City to the east. This happens when there is a light easterly wind. Heathrow flights can accept a small downwind component for landing and taking off because the runways are long. It is done to minimise the noise of departing aircraft over London. With its relatively short runway, City arrivals will almost always land into the wind to minimise their ground speed on landing (and maximise their airspeed on takeoff).

If you want to see the actual heights of every plane arriving at Heathrow you can check it a day or so in arrears at http://lhr.webtrak-lochard.com/template/index.html. I don't think you will find that they ever come over us at less than 3000'.

City arrivals are lower, but they tend to pass over very quickly and are smaller, quieter planes which most people seem to find not a problem.

Compared with the continuous traffic noise that many people living in London have to accept, aeroplane noise seems to be a low level concern except, obviously, for those people who have, for the most part chosen to live close to one of the world's busiest airports.

Fortunately modern planes are a lot quieter than earlier jets (like the 707) and they are getting quieter still. And we don't get our early morning wake up call from Concorde any more!

Hope this helps.

Very much andrewr. Thanks for taking the time for such a detailed post. I think (in an admittedlty ill-informed / lay fashion) that many start to apply their airbrakes over us, which adds to the noise.

Did your research include the likely impact for Londoners of the proposed new runway?

There's a similar arrangement at Gatwick. When they arrive from one particular direction, they fly low over the long-term car parks, which sets off all the alarms - repeatedly, until the batteries go flat. You come back from a week in the sun and the car doesn't start! Fortunately, they are used to this and have a huge battery on a trolley with jump leads, so panic not! Just thought I'd let you know....

In response to Vipes -

I haven't looked at the impact of the new runway. It would be for smaller planes providing links between Heathrow and relatively close destinations freeing the main runways for bigger planes. I don't think we would see these planes over here although the ones that do come over us at present would most likely get their slots replaced by bigger planes.

On the subject of airbrakes - Heathrow requires all arriving planes to have a continuous descent at minimum noise effectively from when they leave the hold until they are on final approach. If this is done well by the crew then the plane shoud be virtually gliding down only increasing power again as they lower wheels and flaps when well past us. In practice air traffic restrictions and less skilled pilots may find they need to open the throttles earlier - perhaps when coming over us, in order to limit their rate of descent. I suspect that if you were to watch and listen carefully you would find that BA planes, whose pilots are using Heathrow all the time with the continuous descent aproach, are quieter than many others who only come here occasionally. Airbrakes (as distinct from flaps) are highly unlikely to be used during the flight over London - they are generally only used when it is necessary to lose height quickly from higher altitudes. Almost certainly used by the depressurised Quantas plane making its quick trip into Manilla the other day!

Article in today's Evening Standard about the expected go-ahead for City Airport to increase flights by 50%.

how depressing.... those city jets are noisy.

Has anyone noticed but has the aircraft noise gone up? I've been in honor oak for a year but it recently has got alot worse! Is this a summer thing or have flight patterns changed?

I agree noise much to loud but at least I am not a hypocrite as do not take holidays involving flying. Eurostar is great but also UK holidays.
Until we stop the culture that flying is so cheap we will have a problem. Airlines should be taxed for fuel at same rate as other users.

From: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/bu...676108.ece

I'm assuming this will mean more flights over SE23...

This is absolutely disgraceful.
We pay our income tax, our council tax and whatever else is asked and fair but when it comes to our rights, where is our money's worth?
If anyone knows there is a way of trying to avoid this increase in air traffic, PLEASE let me know. I will help carry the flag/collect signatures to whatever campaign can be mounted to try and prevent this from happening.
Sometimes a plane hasn't cleared and already another is crossing over the same space. With the planed increase I'm sure it'll be non stop at certain times of the day.
That'll be a nice dent in the house prices, to say the least. No one sane would want to move to a fly path?
Obviously the s*d who decided on this does not live anywhere near by.

http://www.hacan.org.uk

Try these people for assistance. I also got a little bothered by this a few years ago, the Heathrow traffic more than the City airport traffic, but such an increase at City can only make things worse. Some days are worse than others and the noise can be affected by local weather conditions as it is the wind resistance and planes turning to adjust to this that increases engine noise.

From recollection the flight patterns change around April when due to weather and wind conditions the approaches change to westerly preference which means that they approach Hrow from the east ie from the Biggin Hill stack over our heads. So its not anyones imagination that things seem worse in summer months- also exacerbated by people having their windows open as people do in summer.

Doing anything on this is a mammoth task so not for the faint hearted, but I would sign and support any campaign going.

I also used to attend meetings in Hounslow where the offices had triple glazing but conversations still had to stop when certain aircraft flew over. I could never live in West London for that reason and dread this happening here. Surely they can find ways of rotating the stacks to avoid any one area being disproportionately affected?

I wonder if the increase in traffic is required as a result of falling ticket sales due to the recession. Its amazing that the penny hasn't dropped yet. Incidentally, I have never been one of the lucky souls who has been able to get 'cheap' flights. Even a ?0 and ?19.99 headline price to our inlaws in France means when taxes and luggage are factored in, a total ticket price of ?250 for two adults and a two year old toddler; still prohibitive.

Many thanks Roz
M

IMHO, I'd imagine that as permission to increase flights @ City Airport has been granted, the chance of getting that decision overturned is insurmountable ?

Surely, the focus of attention should be on Boris Johnson's proposal to relocate Heathrow to the Thames estuary ? Which presumably would free up flight paths over Forest Hill, and thus see some of City Airport's traffic reruoted away from the hill ? Not that I know anything at all about flight paths, it's just a thought.

Personally I agree with moving Heathrow to beyond Southend for many common-sense reasons...

Comments welcome, no doubt a new debate will ensue...

:-)

Although I accept that it's hard to escape aircraft noise when living in London, the aircraft noise does annoy me (especially in these summer months, when I sleep with the window open) and so I'd like to be kept informed about the new proposals/the 2009 consultation process and, if possible, have the chance to put forward my views.

I've had a look at the Nats website but it doesn't look as though Forest Hill is automatically included in the new 2009 consultation process. Can anyone confirm? If we aren't automatically included, could someone please let me know the most effective way to put forward my views - is it by email? If so, to what email address? The website refers to some sort of feedback form, but I can't find it (although perhaps the consultation hasn't started yet?).

Thanks very much in advance - I'm not very used to 'campaigning' so any help would be much appreciated!

I find that from about 5.30 - 7am I get Jumbos on their way to Heathrow flying over - woken me up on more than one occasion.

It is the helicopters at 3am that annoy me. Twice in the last week I have been woken up.
Oh, and the dustbins at 6am every Monday and Tuesday which make far more noise than an aeroplane.

Lillam, if it was at 5.25am then that was me! CX251 from Hong Kong, came in approximately 5 minutes early to the gate at 5.40. I for one, was over the moon to be in my house in Forest Hill at 7am, having left my apartment in HK at 10pm last night. Flight noise affects most of London. At the moment, I am staring at blue sky criss-crossed with airplane trails. Maybe we hear more, because Forest Hill is so lovely and quiet?