I don't think this is over so celebrations may be a little premature (for the record, I'm not in favour of Domino's on HOP high street). The facts are Domino's application has been rejected by planning. They are elected by us and it's not in their interest to ruffle the feathers of those that voted them in. Naturally most responses have been in opposition because, as has been said earlier, more people are likely to complain in public then support something. So.. what happens next?
I wouldn't be surprised if Domino's knew they would be rejected and their application will go to an appeal ( this is fairly standard practice) and the decision will be made by a third party professional. All I'm saying is that this is far from over in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more. Which is kind of what I was getting at. Planning laws would be relaxed if it was a popular shop and nobody objected, would they not?

The decision did not go to the planning committee, it was made under delegated authority by council officers (unelected). It could still go to appeal but I think that Lewisham's grounds for rejection are pretty solid, based in Lewisham and London planning policy rather than simply choosing the most popular course of action, and I would be quite surprised if an inspector would overturn such a decision.

thanks for clarification Michael - I guess I was a little premature in my thinking! let's hope you're right. regards

Congratulations to the excellent organisation by many people to secure this decision.

To quote Open-City Founding Director Victoria Thornton (see my post #143), I am pleased to see local non-professional people (in the planning and design sense) making an informed contribution to planning.

Exactly.

Appealing against the refusal will probably normally be a formality for Dominos but, like many other posters, I believe their chances of success are slim.

I think parts of Lewisham's refusal (see BCM's post 379) are a bit flaky in reason 1 - eg 'potential for outside seating area' and 'successful and diverse retail sector' - so any appeal would probably focus on those, but I'd be surprised if Dominos throw any money at a full-blown inquiry because there's no getting away from the proposed breaches of policy regarding problems that would be caused by the delivery scooters (see my post 336).

I think the really unfortunate thing about this now is that the quickest method of appeal would take 6 months to be decided, which means that, until then, the Landlord probably wouldn't want to conceed to accepting a rent that's sustainable for starting and building a strong local business.

One day Thomas...

We are very pleased - thanks to everyone for their efforts. Of course we are not through the woods yet...the planning application has been turned down on very solid reasons but of course they can appeal. As BCM said we are meeting a few Dominos directors next week to discuss their application, if they will appeal etc, we will put forward suggestions. People please feel free to PM BCM or myself with any suggestions. Or post on here.

There is a much bigger picture to all of this. Joffe and others are talking about it better being a Dominos rather than an empty unit. There are many issues here. - It would just be a web / telephone business with lots of delivery bikes causing noise and pollution in HOP. It would not being people to the parade to use the other shops. Also them coming to the parade could potentially put 2 other independent pizza places out of business, resulting in loss of jobs and livelihood. If Dominos had a new business model with a sit down restaurant - this would have NOT had this level of objections and probably would have been passed. The unit is just not suited to this type of business.

Another issue aside from this is the landlord of the parade has been systematically putting up rents and in the process crippling the independent businesses over the last couple of years, the empty shops are because of this very reason. Luckily some have managed to buy their units, but one of the shop keepers has had to go through arbitration lately as his rent doubled. The rents they have been asking are unreasonable....lordship lane kind of prices. If a unit gets rented out at a massive premium that will set the value for the others - pushing hard working independents out of business. We value our local shops and want to support them. So this planning application being turned down is good news for them in this sense. In reality there have been some reasonable offers go in for this unit BUT the landlord would rather it sit there empty until they get top dollar....they could not care less about Honor Oak Park Parade, just the bottom line. There is some interest in this unit now - will be interesting if the landlord is open to offers.

Tersie,

Thank you for this summary of exactly where we are, and an insight into what has been going on behind the scenes.

I look forward to hearing about future developments, especially potential new tenants in the Old Bank.

In the meantime, thanks again

Well said.

As for the landlord - clearly taking a very, very short term view. If they had any sense, they'd realise that sucking as much money as is possible out of these businesses now, thereby inevitably putting more independents out of business, would lead to a less desirable parade long term where, 5 years down the line, they'll have problems renting out their units at those prices.

Areas like Lordship Lane render high unit rents because they are desireable shopping/socialising locations with good footfall, gained through a decent mix of chains, independent shops that draw in those with disposable income as well as locals, and restaurants/take-aways/bars in th evening to extend the hours of use. HOP Parade will never be Lordship Lane, nobody is seriously aiming for that, but it could develop into a more sustainable shopping and socialising destination for residents if both the council and landlord (s) had any interest in supporting that idea.

My understanding of Dominoes is that you can go and get the pizza from the shop, like Pizza Hut on London Road. Plenty of people do this in Lordship Lane, and so I'm not sure how you can be confident that it wouldn't have bough much traffic to the area.

I agree anout the bikes though. They would've been dreadful and probably caused accidents.

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/80498_2.pdf

3 in 10 Dominos sales could be a lot of people. I don't think you could say a Dominos at the old bank wouldn't have benefited the other shops on the parade (apart from the pizza shop maybe )

Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't - wouldn't like to be dogmatic about it. But they sell a lot of pizzas, that's for sure.

Dogma doesn't enter into this. Talk of the Domino business model is a non sequitur.

The point here is that many people felt this is the wrong place for a delivery takeaway regardless of the name of the business. Planning policy has supported that stance.

That said, I agree that this won't be over until another business is established there.

The issue was the change of use to a take away.

No objection to Pizza per se.

Indeed if Dominos, Pizza Express, Pizza Hut or anyone else had applied for a sit down Pizza restaurant then I dont believe that this would have been a planning issue at all and the tenant would have just moved in. No need to involve Lewisham Council.

Anyhow well done to all.

Whatever your opinion on the matter, Tersie's assertion that a Dominoes wouldn't bring traffic to the parade is overly dogmatic when I don't think there is any evidence to support that claim.

Maybe I'm wrong though, perhaps there is. Not that it matters now!

What about the evidence provided by Dominoes themselves:

"Only about 30% are bought by customers visiting the unit who then wait for the product to be freshly prepared and baked. This is supported by local experience at more than 670 stores in the UK"

But hey, don't let that get in the way of another constructive comment.

I remember Lordship Lane when it was a right dump. It was worse than Sydenham High street

Actually I think HOP parade, although a lot smaller, has the potential to have more interesting non chain shops than Lordship Lane.

Proportionate to its size it probably already does.

So Wayfarer, how many customers do Dominos have a day? You might be right, of course, but if you don't know that, you don't know diddly squat. 30% of nothing is nothing, as it were.

My comment wasn't unconstructive. Just challenging an assertion.

Ah, but Joffe, most people pick up their pizzas at night on the way home from work when all the other shops are closed, so that won't help in terms of footfall supporting other retailers...

That may well be true Hoona. But at least they might see the closed shops and think about coming back in the day!