I'm not a Dominos fan but think an open Dominos is better than a empty unit. As I've said in the case of the gaudy shop in London Road its a relief to have some trade going on rather than a decaying premises. That particular shop is doing very well and I know a whole range of people who use it regularly. The business model, scorned by many, has actually worked in Forest Hill.

Re the Old Bank, there was a middle range restaurant there before but no one used it. People have a lot less spending power than they used to have so either they will choose to use it or it will go out of business. The only way to prove or disprove a need is for the market to declare which way it wants to swing. Other than that, I'd let them get on with it, and we'll soon see.

This is just a hunch, but you don't live anywhere near Honor Oak Park do you Roz?

Not many people used the place before as the decore was dated, and atmosphere quite stunted. If businesses aren't good enough to survive it will die, people vote with their feet!!!!

You're always going on about peoples spending power; most of the time your own!!! I suggest you take a walk past Babur or Le Querce of an evening, it may come as quite a suprise to you ...then again, it's probably too far away from where you live for you to ever notice.

WE HAVE TWO 'LOCAL' (where's that 'local' support now Roz???) PIZZA TAKEAWAY PLACES ALREADY. WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER ONE, ESPECIALLY NOT ONE IN THE MOST ATTRACTIVE AND MOST IMPORTANT BUILDING ON 'OUR' MAIN ROAD!!!!!!

I agree, I would much rather see a used site than an empty shell.

That said, in an ideal world given its prominence I would have preferred a more "aesthetically" welcome to HOP but given the number of bright yellow signage boards Wilmotts have put up even the lovely frontage of the wood shop is struuggling to compete.

Will I use Dominoes? only if it is better than Mr Pizza on Dartmouth Road. Sorry, I've tried the local ones, but always revert back to an old favourite from the days I lived in FH.

That's the good thing about a takeaway 'delivery' service, it can be based anywhere in the local area and it will deliver to your door.

Domino's size and money is the only reason it is going for that plot, it has a HUGE marketing/advertising budget and along with other advertising it's the best way to market their product encouraging all the locals to eat their high fat high cholesteral product. If it does get the go-ahead to move in that's the only reason it will survive!!!!

Mr Pizza? What Mr Pizza? See, never heard of it, best give it a try. Ahhh, the power of advertising.

My understanding (after some cursory web research) is that Domino's Pizza in the UK operates a franchise model - surely this is some individual's money in that case? Looking at the Domino's website, it appears that someone is willing to invest £280,000 or more in the operation.

My own feeling is that this isn't the best use of that space, but it also isn't the worst possible - a branch of McDonalds would surely be a lot less welcome? And it's got to be better than an empty shell on the parade.

Is a campaign just saying "no" really likely to achieve anything if someone has the time and money to keep applying and if there's a viable business? Or would it be better to (a) identify a credible alternative, involving a business with a plan and an understanding of how to use the space; or (b) try to constructively object and ask whether signage can be done in a considerate/sympathetic way (as noted previously in this thread, this does happen) and that the delivery drivers are respectful of the neighbourhood within which they are working.[/quote]

That's my intention davidl... my objection philosophy is as follows:

1. There is no justification for change of use (sufficient take-away provision already, loss of restaurant space in parade, traffic concerns due to road block on Grierson, opening hours)

2. If, despite those objections, the change of use is approved then conditions should be applied to ensure a very high quality design and to address the traffic and noise concerns on local residential streets.

Could everybody who has signed the petition please also email planning@lewisham.gov.uk quoting DC/11/78332/X with your specific reasons for objecting? Just saying you don't want Dominos in HOP will not help. I don't think we have any information that the petition carries weight in the planning process since it doesn't reference specific planning policy giving grounds for rejecting the application.

To make it easier you can email

saynotodominospizza@gmail.com

A draft letter covering all points will be sent to you - you can adapt if you wish and forward to planning@lewisham.gov.uk

Is it only 'local' people who can write in objection or are 'non-locals' allowed to contribute if they support your opinion Cheeky?

I live close by but probably not close enough by your standards, I've been following the thread and trying to understand the situation as a less frequent user of the parade and someone with some experience and interest in T&C planning.

There have been some very good, material planning objections related to the change of use but there are also some aspects of the campaign & objections that will have little or no bearing on the decision. As someone said, the petition is of little interest to the local planning authority. It might be good as a means of publicity for the campaign and it *might* convince Dominoes/franchise holder there is a significant local opinion on a certain matter but then again they might not think a couple of hundred names in a catchment area of multiple thousands is worth worrying about.

You need to focus the campaign on key points of planning interest, you need to research national and local criteria used to assess change of use planning applications and not waste energy or divert focus onto things that have little or no relevance to the decision.

There appear to be a fairly equal number of A3 and A5 units on the parade (and the extended local area - belated thanks to Tersie for doing most of the work in cataloguing the shops) so my feeling is that the LPA wouldn't have enough grounds to refuse based primarily on the change of use between what are comparatively similar uses (and especially given the economic climate and ease with which it could be returned to A3 use). Plan for your worst case scenario (i.e. that the change is approved) and ensure you press for potential adverse affects of the business and a concerns about the aesthetics of the conversion to be addressed in the approval should it be given.

Personally, I think it would have been great to have a bar/restaurant remain on the site but dominoes, subject to the above constraints, is hardly a disaster. But then I'm not 'local'.

NEWSFLASH!! Just got this letter below from Lewisham Planning. (You can get a draft opposition letter emailed to you if you simply email saynotodominospizza@gmail.com - you will also be kept up to date of meetings and developments on this issue) We have found out that more than 10 objections means it has to go to consultation. with nearly 300 on the petition so far and lots of letter going into planning now this is very promising.

Dear Ms XXXXXXXX
The change of use of the ground floor at 76-78 Honor Oak Park SE23 to Use Class A5 (Hot food takeaway), together with the installation of a new shopfront at No 76, installation of new door at 78 and extract duct/air compressors to the rear at No 78.
Thank you for your letter giving your comments on the above proposal, which will be taken into account when this matter is considered.
The majority of applications are decided by Senior Planning Officers under delegated authority, but if this proposal is to be reported to Committee for determination by the elected Councillors, you will be invited to attend the Committtee meeting.
For your information, Committees are held on Thursday evenings at 7.30, but at this stage it is not known whether the application will be reported to Committee or to which meeting the proposal would be considered.
If the proposal is going to be reported to Committee, you will be given as much notice of the date as possible. A representative of the objectors will be able to speak to Committee for 5 minutes giving reasons for objecting. If you want, you can meet with other objectors before the Committee meeting in another committee room or the Civic Suite foyer if available. Further details of this will follow.
You can also phone to find out the names of other objectors once the time period for making written comments has passed, or to obtain a leaflet explaining more fully the process and guidance for objectors.
Yours sincerely
Chris Werren South Area Team

Just had a chat with the guy in Express Pizza in the HOP parade. He wasn't aware of the extend of the petition and mailing/letter campaign to Lewisham planning yet (nor the se23.com site) and is keen to see the planning application on Lewisham's website.

Needless to say he is worried about the impact a Domino's branch would have on his business. I'm not a big pizza fan, but get the occasional take-away from them. Why we need yet another pizza take away, and one with a gazillion mopeds parked outside at that, is beyond me.

To me, this is about the longer term perspective of keeping HOP a friendly, lively, local place with a parade of shops that people like to use and actually physically go to, rather than just phone in to order something. If we manage to get a business into the unit that achieves that, then it's an investment into HOP's longer term development (and no, I'm not just talking about higher property prices or making it into a mini East Dulwich). Domino's on the other hand is a short term, quick fix that will have the opposite effect in the long run.

Rant over, gotta munch that Fiorentina before it gets cold...

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/LEWIS-XSL...mkey=64414
Talk about being sly....Dominos have just put in a separate planning application for their lovely illuminated signage for the old bank site with only 3 consultees. So much for their 'in sympathetic keeping with buildings" quote on the previous application this is clearly not the case!!

saynotodominospizza@gmail.com - email for draft letter which can be sent to Lewisham planning.

Numbers looking really good now on petition too - 283!

I fear my use of the word 'local' could have been understandably misconstrued.   What I should have said was 'small independent business' as that is what I meant.

I'm just disappointed that anyone should make comments that go quite obviously against the general consensus of this thread, especially when it will not directly affect them. Evidently this is an important issue for those people that it directly affects and we all love our highstreet (someone on here doesn't like it being called highstreet which did make me chuckle) and want the best for it, and domino's is not it.

I will say it one more time for fear of boring people, but Antic (Jam Circus owners) did actually put an application in for the sight but I fear Domino's beat them to it. THERE IS OTHER INTEREST!!!!!!!

Funny, just got off the train and was handed a flyer for Mamma's Pizza based on Stansted Road, that's never happened before (hello Mamma's Pizza),[/size] any more pizza joints lurking in SE23 out there? Domino's, just what we need, another one to add to the it seems ever increasing list.

[/size][/size]NOT!!!

Having no knowledge of the planning system, can Jam Circus not apply at the same time as Dominoes? Best / most suitable application then gets the go ahead.

I've just read this thread for the first time. I think any successful business locating in HOP is good for the parade, which has been subject to a few vacant shops in recent years. As long as it's subject to suitable controls over hours of operation, appropriate advertising etc then I'd be pleased to welcome Dominos. I can understand why some people are concerned but I can't see that Lewisham Council will refuse the application simply because people think that HOP is too good for a fast food chain.

Cheeky, where you say "I'm just disappointed that anyone should make comments that go quite obviously against the general consensus of this thread" I find that a bit odd as I was under the impression that the ability for people to put different views across was entirely the purpose of a discussion forum.

I guess it's all down to the planners now!

Just for info signage applications have to be made separately as they come under Advert Regulations rather than planning regulations so nothing sneaky going on there!

I can still be disappointed

Not what I've heard anybody say...

This is about loss of limited restaurant space to a business model with ample provision in the area; quality of the proposed design in a flagship location on the parade; traffic being forced down residential streets.

Here here but apparently their new pizza also has an after taste of wet dog which does not help

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/w...es-gourmet

But seriously observing from my window for about three minutes, I have seen two mopeds cutting through the no barrier at top of Grierson Road and onto pavement on way to deliver pizza or back to depot and they are not even based in this building

As much as I would prefer not to have a fast food chain - if the new business was at least a sit in restaurant it would be better than having a dominos takeaway.

We would like to make a couple of points regarding big multi-national company vs empty units and the lack of local entrepreneurship.

Just to give people a bit of background for the parade as we know it. We understand that the whole thing was owned by one man for many years until he died several years ago. London and District bought the lot up a couple of years ago and have since sold off units, whole blocks and flats.

We bought the flat above the Old Bank in November 2010 and were aware that the manager of the restaurant had a lease till 2015. The Old Bank restaurant began to falter in February 2011. This I understand was for a number of reasons one of which was the hike in rents which led to problems for many businesses in the parade (Honor Oak Tandoori closed as a result). Around this time London and District approached us to ask whether we wanted to sell the unit back to them as they were planning a "duplex building". Err hello?? we just bought it so we said no. Wilmotts emailed us in March to try to ascertain when The Old Bank restaurant stopped trading. A bailliffs eviction was served on 15th April 2011. I think that the for rent sign went up around May. The rumour mill regarding Domino's renting the unit started in July and this was confirmed by Willmotts. I do not know how many enquiries they recieved from other businesses but one individual told me that they were given short shrift.

It may seem to some people that it has stood empty for some time but really it was only for a couple of months. We believe London and District wanted to get a big business in from the start, hence wanting our flat back. This indicates that there was little room in terms of opportunity or time for smaller scale enterprise to approach them.

Furthermore we understand that the empty units across the road have been bought and remained unused with the express purpose of leasing them to Sainsburys in the near future. This may mean there will be no empty units left on the parade, which is of course a good thing unless other businesses fail due to competition. We feel that the Old Bank is a prime site and the current plans will add little to the parade. Its even more important now to get a business in that will benefit the smaller shops especially when they will be in competition with a big name supermarket.

This is of course not a planning argument but creativity and diversity are particularly regarding employment opportunities. We fear that HOP is going down the road of take aways and supermarket expresses. Of course the owners have the right to lease / sell to who they like but we as a community also have the right to fight for a parade that serves us.