I would certainly support the employment argument...if we were talking about a business creating long-term/full time jobs that provide training and skills.

Last time I checked, Dominos paid somewhere just above minimum wage to a fleet of ever changing staffers, many of whom are students and part time workers who receive little or no valuable training and the skills needed for delivering a pizza often don't seem to stretch beyond cutting off cars at the traffic lights and driving dangerously.

Yes, of course any job is better than no job at all, but I would not want to see Domino's coming out of this as a shining example of "local employment". And that's without mentioning press reports on staff abuse and the dubious history of the chain pre the Bain acquisition.

From an earlier post:

...towards the end of July I wrote to the owners of Jam Circus asking them to have a look at The Old Bank site as a possible outlet for one of their pubs. They were very good in responding and had said they will look into it, I subsequently got another response saying they had put an application in for it. That's as far as I got with them really and all this talk of a 'restraunteur' having taken it on I had everything crossed that it was them. I was gutted when I saw it was dominoes. I only fear that the time in between it being The Old Bank and July that Dominoes had beaten them to it.

Another business will take the space.

Partly agreed. I’m not quite sure where you are getting your data when you say, “…without doubt will be out of business…”. But if it is based on your opinion that an efficient, well run business that appeals to customers, whether an independent or a chain, is highly likely to effect the profitability of local competitors, then I imagine you are correct. (Gawd, that last sentence came out like a politician’s statement!)

That is, indeed, a strong counterpoint.

I’m very much enjoying the discussion on this thread. I’m put in mind of the thoughts of the Open-City Founding Director Victoria Thornton from last weekend’s guide to Open House London. This is just from my aged memory but Victoria was quite enthusiastic in the role that Open-City is developing to enable local non-professional people (in the planning and design sense) to make an informed contribution to planning. I imagine that this thread and subsequent activity is exactly what Victoria had in mind.

I’m sure if anyone were to follow the links in the Open-City website, then you will find very useful information and tools to help in your endeavours.

A restaurant would only pay just above minimum wage also and have a fleet of ever changing staffers. I'm not saying Dominoes would win employer of year, but a job is a job, better than the small amount from the govt they get and hanging around with nothing to do.

Roadrummer you say another business will take the space, my question is still, when, and how long is everybody prepared to wait for this. The economy is not getting any better.

What happens if in 6 months when other businesses have looked at the site thought yeah nice, but when they've done the business plan they find it is not viable, and it is still empty.

I hope I'm wrong, I really do.

This is exactly what we are attempting to start around Sydenham and Forest Hill (and Honor Oak) with this evening's neighbourhood planning meeting. We are involving local professional, local non-professional, and local governmental experts in this process from the very beginning to see if such an approach would be useful for the local area.

In reference to BMqpr's post, I recently posted on here that the owners of Jam Circus had shown an interest in The Old Bank Site but were possibly beaten to it by Dominoes.

If it was down to me my preferred choice of business for this site is definately a pub along the lines of The Dartmouth Arms or Jam Circus, however, I obviously can't speak for everyone but a place like this will obviously create numerous jobs of varying levels for those BMqpr is talking about.

I'm sticking my neck out a bit here as this could go disastrously wrong for my chosen camp by causing a raft of negative 'public' feedback but if people were in favour of such a place I don't think it would do any harm voicing it on this thread!!!!

Antic may just happen across this forum/thread!!!!!

Yes Celler Door, these independents would never have the buying power that Dominos have as a national company. It has happened in many areas where a large chain moves in they will have special offers that will undercut and squeeze margins of competitors. The rents have increased massively in HOP so they are probably already struggling I would imagine. If this goes ahead I think it would be a matter of time before we end up with two more empty units in HOP. Hence why folk are happy to wait until a more suitable business is interested.

So two units that could change use from A5 (takeaway) to A3 (restaurant) under permitted development rules.

Sorry, only (kinda) joking. I rarely get over to HOP so this really doesn't affect me. I can understand and accept some of the objections mentioned but not all of them.

If the rumours of how much the rents have gone up are true it probably means there is a limited market for taking on what is one of the bigger units in the parade.

Out of interest, could someone list the shops (with type) on the parade itself. I'd like to understand how an extra takeaway would affect the balance.

One pizza shop is almost a hole in the wall operation, the other a single unit, neither of which suitable for a sit down restaurant. On Brockley Rise (leading on from Honor Oak Park) there is the pizza, chicken, chinese, thai AND turkish takeaways, also a Carribean deli / takeaway plus 3 greasy spoon cafe's!

On Honor Oak Parade we have (correct me if I am wrong) Dry Cleaners, The Oak Cafe, Honor Oak Pet Shop, Honor Oak Gallery, Fish & Chip shop, pizza takeaway, Chinese Takeaway, Hairdressers, 1 small supermarket, 2 small newsagents / shops, Off License, Hopscotch Cafe, Stone Bar, Try Tapas, Neroli (Beauty Salon) 3 estate agents, Dental Shop, Undertakers and Wood Furniture Shop. There are 3 empty units where the Honor Oak Tandoori used to be (and the storage for the undertakers) These units have been sold freehold but have restaurant status - we don't know what is going in there yet! Then there is the Old Bank, the best site in HOP - empty!

Oh and how could I forget - The amazing Jumping Bean gift shop and the Florist!

Sorry - I clearly have nothing better to do. Also the newest and very welcomed addition of the fab Hills and Parkes Deli!!!

Putting aesthetic considerations to one side, I'm not sure I'm convinced by the argument that Dominoes will put other local pizza takeaways out of business. That said, I don't know the takeaways you're talking about so you may well be right.

However, Forest Hill has the Pizza Hut takeaway and Al Forno - big multi national and small independent respectively. They cater for totally different markets - I've lived in Forest Hill since 2002 and have never once ordered a pizza from Pizza Hut - I don't like their pizzas. But Al Forno is an entirley different creature, wood fired thin crust pizzas and absolutley delicious and the chap who delivers to our street is just lovely.

While we're on the subject of eyesores on the high street...what's the story with the boarded up premises across the street from Hopscotch? Is that a hangover from the riots?

And Question Bar do an extensive range of pizzas. They claim that their ingredients are from local suppliers.

I’ve bought pizzas from all of the places in Forest Hill. In fact, I don’t want to gloat here but I’m a Pizza Hut High Priority Platinum Gold Club member. I’d pick up the phone, hit speed dial to The Hut and they wouldn’t even need to say anything except “Good Evening Sir, the usual?” and one of their zippy little mopeds would be around in minutes.

I moved out of Forest Hill very briefly a few years ago and then came back. A couple of days later I received a Welcome Back card signed by “All your Friends at Pizza Hut, Forest Hill.”

I'm not sure that's anything to gloat about Cellar Door!!!

I have the same with Cinnamon. Don't need to say my name or address but my order always arrives 25 minutes after the phone call has ended.

Apparently the guy who owns the boarded up shop has bought the old honor oak tandoori as well, hence the sold sign. Not sure what his plans are other than to protect his premises with the boards!

Tersie, how could you forget Vaidas the cycle shop. And it's not just any old hairdressers - it's the multi-award-winning Barbaros.

Old Bank/Dominos flyer received through the door - cheers!

BMqpr - don't be too flattered. All the takeaway places are computerised and their systems recognise your phone number. By the time they've finished saying hello they have your name, address and order history in front of them.