Dominos respond to Brockley Central: http://brockleycentral.blogspot.com/2011...nsion.html

Please retweet this if you feel so inclined...the more @mentions the better for getting their attention. It is clear from their response to Brockley Central that they have no consideration for our thoughts on the matter...

http://twitter.com/#!/dkingdotcom/status...33/photo/1

Please explain what you mean by "they have no consideration for our thoughts on the matter" in their response to Brockley Central. IMO the proposed images provided by Domonoes on Brockley Central take into consideration the outside of the old bank.

Beat Dominos and make your own pizza

Ingredients
For the dough

200g/7oz plain flour, plus extra for dusting
2 tbsp olive oil
pinch salt
3-5 tbsp water

For the topping

choose your own

Sieve tinned tomatoes, add tomatoe puree, salt, pepper and oragano.

Mozarella cheese

Method

1.Preheat the oven to 200C/400F/Gas 6.

2.For the dough, place the flour, olive oil and salt into a large bowl and stir in enough water to make a soft but not sticky dough.

3.Turn the dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead lightly until smooth. Roll the dough out into a round approximately 0.5cm/¼in thick.

Technique: Kneading bread .

2:35 mins4.Place the dough onto a non-stick baking sheet lightly dusted with flour.

5.Transfer to the oven and bake for 12-15 minutes, or until the dough sounds hollow when the base is tapped and the top is golden-brown.

6.To serve, sprinkle over the parsley and cut the flatbread into wedges

Yes, they take into consideration that the building is there, and that they plan to stick a big Dominos takeaway sign on it, noting that :

It's an inappropriate use of the most prominent position in the HOP parade of shops. Does this actually need explaining again?

It could be a lot worse,

Dbboy - you clearly do not live in Honor Oak Park near to The Old Bank - see main issues below nearly 300 people have sent a letter into Lewisham Planning to oppose the application, also over 500 have signed a petition. I hope this puts you in the picture. I think the powers to be at Dominos need to be looking at our site, maybe not the Brockley Central one as this is where the campaign has stemmed from.

The major issue is the noise pollution the motor-cycles required for delivery. Given the size of the premises it is presumed that this will be a major delivery hub for Dominos in SE London. The building is at the junction of the parade and Grierson Road (a no through road) with a large residential area and a frequently congested main road, it is presumed that Grierson Road and the adjoining streets (Gabriel, Garthorne, and Bovill also have only emergency access) will be used as a "rat-run" for the delivery bikes (despite the road closure at that location). Consideration of the noise and traffic impact on the residents of these streets should be made in deciding whether to approve this application. There is also a bus stop outside the unit which could (as well as the emergency access to Grierson Road) be obstructed by large lorries delivering supplies.

There are already 2 pizza take aways within 50 and 150 meters. Furthermore as there are three take away outlets on the parade and numerous others in the locale, there is already ample provision for hot food takeway outlets in the area. There is no evidence of demand for another take-away establishment on the parade.

The parade at Honor Oak Park is a somewhat fragile retail ecosystem and it relies on planning policy to maintain the diversity of the services offered so to maintain viability of all the businesses.There is already very limited provision for licensed sit down restaurants on the parade - this change of use application will result in further homogenisation of the offerings of the parade and in loss of amenity for nearby residents.

The business model used by the applicant will bring no further foot-fall to the parade resulting in lower customer traffic and affecting the viability of the entire street.

The building in question, at the corner of Honor Oak Park and Grierson road is an attractive former bank with period features. It was sensitively developed by the former occupier and provides a high quality "gateway" for visitors to the parade from the railway station.

For these reasons above, I as a resident of Honor Oak Park urge the council to reject this application for change of use to A5 and to retain this historic building as a restaurant.

Looks like I touched a very RAW nerve.

Can I suggest you don't make assumptions about where people reside.

It's my opion and I'm sticking with it. The names on the petition were mostly there before the revised image was avauilable. I appreciate the fragility of the parade having seen businesses come and go and seen this campaign since it started.

As I said, it's my opinion and on a public forum members are entiled to give their view. You have every right to disagree, but it does not warrent you going off on one.

Eh ? What revised image? Don't diss the passion its fantastic

If you are referring to the image Domino's provided to Brockley Central... that is from their withdrawn planning application which they, presumably, recognised was sub-standard since they withdrew it.

Here's a link to an earlier post with the reasons why I think this "revised image" is unacceptable and fails to meet the councils shop-front design planning policy: http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php...8#pid40888

They need to do a lot better on the design and they need to address the traffic concerns. We are still waiting to them to resubmit a new design.

Two responses from Dominos on Twitter to today's posts from those concerned:

Dominos_UK @dkingdotcom Thanks for that. We are continuing to pass your comments on to our property department.
»
DominosUK
Dominos_UK @dkingdotcom Got your tweet and seen the SE23 forum - we are listening.

The posted planning drawing on the blog has a glass entrance door in place of the original wooden ones there now, has hideous corporate coloured signage and frankly looks dreadful. As far as I can see I have to agree with "anonymous" on the brockley central blog. It's a drawing that looks no more attractive than the mock up I produced for the petition, it just looks more flattering in pen and ink. It even has a neon sign in the window... how sympathetic to the architecture of this lovely Victorian building.

Irrespective of signage this is the WRONG type of business for this unit....anyone who knows the site and surrounding area will understand this. I think Dominos could select a much better location for a main hub in SE23 or nearby. Maybe on a main road location, not situated on smaller parade with quiet back streets. The 8-10 delivery bikes will be located at the back of the building in a small yard causing noise pollution to many people, and will either have to go through a road closure onto Honor Oak Park (and illegally rat run) or wiz up and down what are quiet streets to deliver their sub standard fare. There is (depending on how things go with this planning application) already interest in the unit to turn The Old Bank into a restaurant / nice gastro pub, which judging by all the people talked to during this campaign, including immediate neighbours would be very welcome addition in HOP.

Tersie - I hadn't heard there was any interest in turning it back into a restaurant - I hope that is correct it would be a MUCH better use of the building. I have nothing against pizzas but there is already a pizza takeaway - we don't need two!

Has anyone spoken to English Heritage about this building, with a view to having it locally listed or whatever? It seems as though there's a weight of very strong local opinion about this property's architectural merit as an important landmark at the town centre's gateway - primarily for vistors and local residents walking from the station but also for the all-important first-impression of the town seen by motorists driving down Honor Oak Park from the west.

Unfortunately the local planning department doesn't have any power to prevent anyone from fitting any type of shopfront and fascia if it isn't on a listed property or in a conservation area and, due to the designation of this shopping parade, their hands are pretty well tied in terms what they can refuse.

In my opinion, apart from listing the building, which would protect the architectural integrity and prevent any unsuitable changes like Dominoes's normal livery, I'd press the planners VERY HARD INDEED on the issue of the undoubted nuisance that will be caused by the noise from several delivery scooters out the front TOGETHER WITH the fact that these bikes WILL park on the pavement, on yellow lines, across the emergency access and to the rear of the property in Grierson Road, WHICH WILL ALSO CREATE AN UNACCEPTABLE LEVEL OF DISTURBANCE SUE TO ADDED TRAFFIC AND NOISE IN AN AREA TO THE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY THAT CURRENTLY ENJOYS RELATIVE PEACE & QUIET DUE TO THERE BEING NO THROUGH TRAFFIC.

Here's the relevant policy from Lewisham's UDP:-

STC 9 Restaurants, A3 Uses and Take Away Hot Food Shops
Restaurants, A3 uses and take away hot food shops will be granted permission where they satisfy the following principles:
(a) their location, design, parking and traffic generation is acceptable and does not conflict with other policies in the Plan;
(b) they do not harm the living conditions of nearby residents, including that created by noise and disturbance from users and their vehicles, smell, litter and unneighbourly opening hours; and
© parking and traffic generation is not a danger to other road users, public transport operators or pedestrians.

In addition applicants will be expected to provide acceptable arrangements for:
(d) the efficient and hygienic discharge of fumes and smells, including the siting of ducts - which should be unobtrusive;
(e) the collection, storage and disposal of bulk refuse and customer litter;
sound proofing, especially to living accommodation above; and
(f) the impact on neighbours of the proposed opening hours which will normally be restricted to 8.00 am to 12 midnight in the Major and District Centres and 8.00 am to 11.00 pm in Local Centres and Parades.

Reasons
Eating out, especially from a fast food establishment, is now considered a normal part of a shopping trip for many people. Town centres are considered the best location for this type of use although the Policy for a Core Area of retail uses needs to be safeguarded. Food and drink establishments are also important for the employment they provide, and for their contribution to the vitality of a centre. Most parts of the Borough are well provided with restaurants, cafés, takeaways, wine bars and public houses. These uses can cause unwelcome noise, traffic, smells and refuse and the Policy is designed to minimise these nuisances. The Council is concerned also to reduce traffic congestion or danger to the public from vehicles. It is considered necessary to impose conditions on opening hours in some cases in order to protect the amenity of residents who live nearby.

Not sure if anyone has seen this - This is Dominos delivery plan on the application.

Subject to planning permission Domino’s intends to use mopeds to deliver food prepared at the store on Honor Oak Park.
At off peak times the Domino’s store would be served by 1 or possibly 2 mopeds for delivery purposes. At peak times (Friday and Saturday 6pm-9pm) this would increase to 7 mopeds.
Overnight and when not in use the mopeds would be stored in the yard to the rear of the unit. When brought into use they will be wheeled to the road in front of the store (Honor Oak Park) prior to the engine being started.
No mopeds will be parked on the pavement or on Grierson Road at any time. Domino’s certainly do not intend to cause any nuisance to nearby residents, who are considered to be potential customers. It is intended that when in use the mopeds will be parked in the bays on Honor Oak Park. There is a bus stop immediately outside the unit however the bays, which continue all the way down the full length of the parade, are located less than a few metres from the store and are on both sides of the road. At the time of the site visit there was plenty of spare capacity for parking, especially for smaller vehicles such as mopeds.
There are no guidelines on how far away from the store that drivers can park their vehicles. However 40m away would not be considered an excessive distance particularly as the walk to the parking bays when carrying pizza would be downhill.

Well this say it all. 1-2 bikes, at non peak, do not really believe this. Up to 7 bikes (if not way more) all over Honor Oak Park at weekends taking up space and causing a nuisance, of course Dominos will not say they will have engines on in Grierson road and be rat running through all the back streets which all the other takeaways deliveries currently do. This will be a nightmare...especially as they will look to extend opening hours to 1am as they have done with New Cross after they got initial planning. Lewisham have to turn this down! If they did get planning permission there would be no way to police them. To oppose this planning application email saynotodominospizza@gmail.com and you will be sent information.

So looking forward to 7 mopeds (and their often highly skilled drivers) noisily zooming round the back streets of Honor Oak Park all day and night then. Not. And no, I'm not buying the "1-2 bikes at non-peak" either.

Anotherjohn

If you are keen for English Heritage to list it then I suggest that you contact them directly. I think this is something you can do from their website. Alternatively it might be worth a conversation with the Conservation Officer at Lewisham, who may not be aware of the buildings 'local importance'.

Alternatively we can suggest that it is a non-designated heritage asset (i.e. an important building that is not formally listed but that has heritage value). I think we will need more information on its history, previous uses and design to do this.

Is this information that anyone has access to e.g. old photo's, information about original uses etc etc. ?

Here's a link to some nice old pictures of the Old Bank. Think it used to a Barclays bank till 1990 then was a builders merchant till it changed into a restaurant. Can anyone else confirm or have other info?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevegrindl...026712843/

Interesting that Domino plan to keep the mopeds in the bays where you are only allowed to park for half an hour from Monday to Saturday 9 - 6.30pm?? Will they just have to keep moving them? Is there a no return within 2 hours parking enforcement on the high street?

Don't think its going to work so likely that the bikes will either flout parking restrictions, be parked in residential streets or in the back yard.

There is interest - the chap who owns 'The Herne' and 'The Palmerston' put in a couple of bids for it, but they weren't high enough. He wanted to turn it into a Thai restaurant. Unfortunately, as a rule, Landlords are far more interested in national chains than independants, as it gives better rent certainty and improves the value of the freehold.