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People With Choldren Suffer The Most Under The Coalition
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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #21
23-06-2011 02:39 PM

Michael, the name of the thread you just linked to is wonderfully titled More Lies by Ex FH Pat.

It seems to me that Barcar called sockpuppet specifically on Ex FH Pat and ForestHillier.

I observe re-reading it that this was the thread that Ex FH Pat posts on for the last time. Just three days before ForestHillier pops up for the first time.

I’ve just enjoyed re-reading the More Lies thread with this recent added insight from Admin. Particularly, the “I am Spartacus” posts. That is just too delicious.

I have to confess that I got confused when this “new” exfhpat joined recently saying Hello again.

If I understand this correctly, then three users are one. That is, Ex FH Pat, ForestHillier and the recently joined exfhpat. That is a lot of effort.

Now, the trick is to spot Ex FH Pat/ForestHillier/exfhpat's new user name if they are inspired to rejoin us wearing another mask.

Or maybe they are already in here?

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #22
23-06-2011 02:51 PM

I'm sure admin will look at the IP addresses and let us know...

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #23
23-06-2011 02:53 PM

What is point sockpuppetry?

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #24
23-06-2011 03:11 PM

It allows trolls to add extra mischief to their trolling, Robin, by adopting several personas on the forum. I've never understood the appeal of trolling or sock puppetry myself. But some people obviously find it fun.

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megan


Posts: 49
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #25
23-06-2011 05:20 PM

Aha knew it when Expat came back last week and only Foresthillier replied. Are people really that sad?

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #26
24-06-2011 07:18 AM

Quote:
It allows trolls to add extra mischief to their trolling, Robin [...] some people obviously find it fun.

Teenage anti-social behaviour then. I blame the parents.

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #27
24-06-2011 02:00 PM

rshdunlop wrote:
I’ve never understood the appeal of trolling or sock puppetry myself.

I hit a blank on this, too. Like many things in behaviour, I imagine there is a cocktail of causes.

There is a decent amount of brilliance in some of it. And some sheer audacity. For example, in the thread where ForestHillier welcomes back exfhpat they even pointed out the earlier sockpuppet detection. (i.e. “…funny thing was that someone even accused me of being you…”).

I do admire how they remained at large on this forum, apart from a few whistleblowers, for nearly a year. I heard Barcar blowing the whistle but didn’t focus and then forgot about it. It then got washed away in the steady stream of threads that got created since then.

I feel that we have before us, if you care to explore, a masterclass in a certain type of sockpuppetry.

I’m very intrigued about what need was being met by Ex FH Pat/ForestHillier/exfhpat creating different on-line personas.
In this case, I wonder if they know?

Since yesterday afternoon when this was exposed, I’ve found myself sometimes sitting back, staring into space and pondering.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #28
24-06-2011 02:32 PM

Quote:
There is a decent amount of brilliance in some of it. And some sheer audacity. [...] I do admire how they remained at large on this forum [...] for nearly a year. [...] I feel that we have before us [...] a masterclass [...]

You're going down a dangerous road here, Celador. Would you 'admire' the 'sheer audacity' of people who deface public buildings with their graffiti? Would you invite us to a 'masterclass' of mobile phone hackers?

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #29
24-06-2011 02:48 PM

I suspect that Ex FH Pat and ForestHillier are different people but closely related, and fully aware of each other's online activities. But it is quite possible that they have occasionally borrowed IDs to stengthen their point.

It is also interesting his/her/their focus on anti-Tory threads, especially if you consider Ralph's comments on Sydenham Forum.

I'm not suggesting that political parties could be bothered to infiltrate SE23.com but I wanted to leave Cellar Door with something further to ponder.

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #30
24-06-2011 03:05 PM

robin orton wrote:
You're going down a dangerous road here, Celador. Would you 'admire' the 'sheer audacity' of people who deface public buildings with their graffiti? Would you invite us to a 'masterclass' of mobile phone hackers?

Hi robin orton,

I see where you are coming from.

The dangerous road with people defacing buildings and mobile phone hackers hacking away is not where I’d expect to spot sockpuppets. The first two endeavours are illegal. Sockpuppetry isn’t, I believe.

Sockpuppets would be on a different strand. With them I’m considering what is driving the behaviour.

But I can admire some aspects of, say, people who deface buildings. For example, I sometimes see some graffiti which is in a place where I think, “How the heck did they get up there?”

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #31
24-06-2011 03:35 PM

michael wrote:
I suspect that Ex FH Pat and ForestHillier are different people but closely related, and fully aware of each other's online activities. But it is quite possible that they have occasionally borrowed IDs to stengthen their point.

Thanks Michael. I hadn’t considered that possibility. That specific activity is called Meatpuppet, I remember.

michael wrote:
It is also interesting his/her/their focus on anti-Tory threads, especially if you consider Ralph's comments on Sydenham Forum.

Thank you for giving me a little more to wonder and ponder.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #32
24-06-2011 03:38 PM

Quote:
But I can admire some aspects of, say, people who deface buildings. For example, I sometimes see some graffiti which is in a place where I think, “How the heck did they get up there?”

Me too. But it's a guilty admiration.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #33
24-06-2011 03:57 PM

Is anybody here a Lesbian Syrian Blogger?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun...-macmaster

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Jane_D


Posts: 189
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #34
24-06-2011 03:59 PM

ForestHillier and Ex FH Pat look more like the same person than connected people because they have an identical writing style, including never using punctuation marks at the end of sentences (as far as I can see).

But perhaps they are just friends, and this shared habit the basis of their alliance?

My guess is that his/her/their real name is Pat, and Ex FH Pat means 'Former ForestHillier', with an amusing overtone of 'expat'.

I agree with Cellar Door that it is all thoroughly intruiging. Is this the point of socketpuppetry, Pat(s), to get everyone talking about you?

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #35
24-06-2011 04:16 PM

Did the shared obsession with wandsworth not give it away?

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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #36
24-06-2011 10:02 PM

Oh Michael - and robin orton too

Michael's comment that deem as unacceptable and abhorant any "...focus on anti-Tory threads.." and robin orton's expression that '..societal superiority..' is desirable in our leaders, as expressed here on our little board in the last month, is coming close to forelock tugging of the worst kind.

Wake-up - we live in a modern society.

We are all free to hold and express a range of opinons.

As a board that is effectively un-moderated we must take steps to ensure that moderation by the side door avoids a disproportionately antediluvian mind-set.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #37
24-06-2011 10:29 PM

jgd, you wouldn't happen to be Ex FH Pat too? Wink

Where have I said or implied 'unacceptable and abhorant'?
I would be very happy to have a even less moderated forum, but I don't like sock-puppetry, trolls, or speculation regarding on-going police investigations relating to the most serious of crimes. I hardly feel that is 'antediluvian'.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #38
24-06-2011 11:01 PM

Michael

I know you know I'm not anyone else except me. Cool

Explictly if you choose to refer to "focus on anti-Tory threads", did you mean something else ? Did I misunderstand ?

I feel we share a common view on the qualities of the moderation applied on this board by its sole arbiter.

We know that we respect independent view-points and specifically I can acknowledge your list of "don't likes" are significant.

On planning apps I cannot always agree about the approve/do not approve approach of FHS when there are options that are entirely acceptable and do not warrant rejection as the only recommendation. The debate, however is fully enjoyed and I defend it.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #39
25-06-2011 08:39 AM

jgd,
I'll respond to the point on planning issues via a separate thread, as far as I know it was only the thread on the fire station that you have commented on. But the planning system does require an 'approve' or 'object' to any application, and each application must be judged on its own merits, not what could be in a future application or amended version of the application on the table. That is just the adversarial nature of the system and an early objection often results in changes that make a development more acceptable and effectively neutralise the objections.

Focus on anti-Tory threads - take a look at the threads started by Ex FH Pat:
Trust a Tory - having a bubble
June 2010 budget - a deliberately provocative faux-right-wing rant
More Lies
And of course this thread.

Anybody has the right to start whatever threads they like, but when they are deliberately misrepresenting who they are, and creating personas with extreme opinions, that is a slightly different matter. I never deemed this as 'unacceptable and abhorrent', but the circumstances made it noteworthy. You are welcome to consider it un-noteworthy or to disagree with anything I say, without misrepresenting what I am saying.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #40
25-06-2011 09:26 AM

Quote:
robin orton's expression that '..societal superiority..' is desirable in our leaders, as expressed here on our little board in the last month, is coming close to forelock tugging of the worst kind. Wake-up - we live in a modern society. We are all free to hold and express a range of opinons.As a board that is effectively un-moderated we must take steps to ensure that moderation by the side door avoids a disproportionately antediluvian mind-set


I don't get this, JGDocherty. Are you saying that 'moderation by the side door' (whatever that is) should be used to prevent the expression of views reflecting 'a disproportionately antediluvian mind set' on this forum? If so, that seems a trifle harsh. Antediluvians of the world unite!

For the record, the expression 'societal superiority' itself was Roz's. I was merely defending what I understood it to imply in the context of a constitutional monarchy.

Could someone not put this thread out of its misery and see whether it resurrects itself as something a little better focussed?

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