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Forest Hill in the Times property section
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Newbie


Posts: 40
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #21
15-06-2011 07:30 PM

Havent seen any snobbery on this board. Someone saying they would prefer a nice bar or restaurant to a pound shop doesnt make them a snob.

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poolsneighbour


Posts: 162
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #22
15-06-2011 07:43 PM

Thank you! Some people on here are all to quick to judge others and bad mouth. So I live in an ex local flat in FH and grew up in a s**t part of Essex..yes I'm obviously a snob.. It would just be nice to see Forest Hill smarten up a bit!

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #23
15-06-2011 07:52 PM

Again, please read what I've written. I was commenting generally and responding to Pool's claim that people 'love' grot.

They don't.

However if you go back and read many of the usual threads about why and how Forest Hill should change etc etc then you get the same comments picking out things considered to be eyesores. In the past we've had ordinary cafes and even the launderette being criticised for lowering the tone. Pools, I never said you are a snob but I do disagree that things are this black and white. If you are going to claim as much then you should expect some kind of response.

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Caro


Posts: 6
Joined: Apr 2011
Post: #24
21-07-2011 11:13 AM

Grot on...

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notstoppin


Posts: 32
Joined: Jun 2009
Post: #25
21-07-2011 01:58 PM

Perhaps Newbie and PoolsNeighbour could tell us which features of the Forest Hill 'streetscape' they regard as "grot"?

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spud


Posts: 65
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #26
22-07-2011 09:54 AM

It's funny, because I don't remember anyone enthusing about 'grot'. Not by using that word. Nor in a more general sense.

Maybe someone could and paste the relevant quotes?

........................

Didn't think so.

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dartmouth


Posts: 71
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #27
22-07-2011 09:56 AM

A decent chunk of Dartmouth Road for a start. I am not a snob. I just think it wrong that some businesses fail to take any notice of the impact that their premises have on the local community as a whole. I couldnt care less if it's a pound shop, barbers, nail bar, take away, coffee shop etc. I just have a problem when such businesses create unreasonable amounts of noise and rubbish and act as hubs for anti-social behaviour without seeingly taking any responsibility for it or making any move to solve the problems which some businesses, in part, are responsible for. I strongly believe that a thriving and interesting town centre requires a variety of businessses including some grotty ones. However, if one posts on a forum such as this that it may be nice to see a Pizza Express (for example), I dont think it should inspire some of the responses which have been posted in the past by those who sometimes speak as though they want to keep Forest Hill unchanged in a frozen state, as if it were a negative thing that Forest Hill may move in a direction where the socioeconomic profile of the local community becomes broader and perhaps more varied. A different socioeconomic band of resident is now appearing in Forest Hill due to the improved transport links and it is only right that they may hope for a business to arrive one day which they would regard as a useful and exciting addition (NOT replacement) to the town in which they have invested their hard earned savings.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #28
22-07-2011 11:48 AM

Quote:
Maybe someone could and paste the relevant quotes?

I said:

Quote:
Nowt wrong with a bit of grot. Helps keep house prices down

Dartmouth gives the game away in his/her last phrase:

Quote:
[...] the town in which they have invested their hard earned savings.

So it's about protecting one's investment, isn't it?

Quote:
Forest Hill may move in a direction where the socioeconomic profile of the local community becomes broader and perhaps more varied. A different socioeconomic band of resident is now appearing in Forest Hill [...]

Oi can tell you, us old inhabitants don't take koindly to them incomers with their fancy City ways using their million pound bonuses to buy up all the houses and wanting poncy boutiques and that and pricing us ordinary folk out of the market so that our children can't afford to live here. It's a roit scandal, I tell'ee.

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poolsneighbour


Posts: 162
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #29
22-07-2011 12:56 PM

Ok - lets just not invest anything and allow a takeover by charity shops, vacant premises, pound shops and fried chicken takeaways shall we.. and obviously we don't want to promote young professionals and first time buyers like me and Dartmouth into the area either..long live grot

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spud


Posts: 65
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #30
22-07-2011 03:18 PM

At this point, I'm really not sure how serious or how ironic Robin Orton is being. (Although I would sign my name to a notional list of anyone who considered their house to be a home rather than an investment.)

But it does feel as if Poolsneighbour is raining blows on a 'straw man'.

'Put in general terms, the (straw man) fallacy is of dealing with a weaker or distorted version of an argument or position as though it was in fact the full and accurate one. The position itself is then taken to be shown to be flawed even though it has not actually been subject to proper critique at all.

Although the misrepresentations characteristic of straw men can be willful, often they simply reflect how little effort people make to understand their opponents’ points of view. We like the world to be clear cut and simple, made up only of black and white.' Julian Baggini

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poolsneighbour


Posts: 162
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #31
22-07-2011 03:25 PM

I think there are alot of people on these forums that make very poor and weak arguments and get too irate over ridiculous discussions.. I was just taking the mick more than anything!

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #32
22-07-2011 09:16 PM

Sorry, a different socioeconomic type of resident has moved in?

I don't think so. I was different socioeconomically once with a good salary, car , flat and money to burn. I spent money on clothes, books, and heaven above going to the theatre once a month, something which is now out of my reach. I travelled abroad several times a year and ate out at least once a week. Then I bought a house and had children. So some of us are still here. We are just older and poorer. Thats all.

I do not really think that new incomers are well off relatively; I was much better off- not because I was paid zillions but because basic costs were affordable. I dont see anyone flashing the cash around Forest Hill. These days if I feel like a bit of luxury I think about having a coffee and a croissant in one of the nice new cafes that have cropped up. But then I think do I want to spen £6 or so and get a back of croissants from Sainsburys instead...

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dartmouth


Posts: 71
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #33
23-07-2011 10:55 AM

Robin Orton - As Spud said, Im not sure whether you are being ironic or not so I apologise if I have misunderstood you but yes, I do think it comes down to looking after ones investment to a point and I dont think I was 'giving the game away' by suggesting that in my post. I fully admit that I too would sign myself up as being one of the most house proud people around. I most certainly bought my flat as a home first and foremost, rather than simply an investment. However, I would be a fool not to want to protect the investment that I have made in my flat and hope that my investment makes me some money so that I may upgrade to a better property one day (which would 100% be in Forest Hill, whether it gets a pizza express or not!)

Roz - I think it is an undeniable fact that if one people watches in Forest Hill now (a favourite past time of mine), it is very different to how it appeared 10 years ago. Whether people like it or not (bizarely, a few people on this forum seem to), Forest Hill once had a reputation as being seedy and when I first visited 10 years ago, I encountered a very different Forest Hill to the one I love today. I would say that that is a good thing so why is it so wrong to hope it continues to improve? I was very careful to say in my last post that all I would like to see is an increase in variety and choice, not to have one group of people priced out by another. People are now moving to Forest Hill from Hoxton, Shoreditch, Clapham and living alongside those residents who have lived here for much longer. Noone is hoping anyone will get priced out. However, if perhaps one of the larger commercial premises in Forest Hill (which typically lie empty anyway) has a chain move in (such as the poor misunderstood Pizza Express), well then that simply increases that choice and variety which should surely benefit everyone.

Many people on this forum will hope for everything which I have tried to describe because they do want their property to increase in value, whilst simultaneously hoping that Forest Hill becomes more varied and culturally diverse etc. Like many, I bought my first home in Forest Hill and I want to make some money so that I may upgrade sooner rather than later and buy again, in Forest Hill. There is nothing at all wrong or shameful about that. I cant help but wonder whether those who seem to want Forest Hill to stay frozen in time are simply perhaps those who are more settled and dont have the need to improve their property portflio. Shouldnt mean the rest of us cant strive for something better though.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #34
23-07-2011 11:46 AM

Dartmouth you advise FH had a reputation for being seedy 10 years ago.

To be honest as I remeber at least 55 years of FH cannot recall population changed much in the last decade.

We still have Bird in the Hand etc.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #35
23-07-2011 03:15 PM

But now we don't have the lewd Bird in Hand pub sign I remember from when I first moved to the area - I had to avert my eyes every time I passed it. Raffish perhaps, rather than seedy?

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #36
25-07-2011 08:00 PM

Poolsneighbour said:

"Ok - lets just not invest anything and allow a takeover by charity shops, vacant premises, pound shops and fried chicken takeaways shall we.. and obviously we don't want to promote young professionals and first time buyers like me and Dartmouth into the area either..long live grot."

The problem is that gentrification to the degree desired by some here (ie East Dulwich style) means that first time buyers are effectively excluded from the local property market. And if the first time buyers can't move in, the stagnation will be felt more widely - as we've already been seeing.

So it's all very well people wanting to make a killing on their property but it's all relative: if they make more on theirs, they'll probably have to spend a lot more trading up to something better. Unless they move out to Lincolnshire.

I'm not getting at you Poolsneighbour, I don't think you're a snob anymore than I am. But if property prices go up to Dulwich or Clapham levels the impact isn't necessarily going to be wonderful.

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #37
26-07-2011 03:20 PM

And making hay while the sun shines? Isn't that what's caused the problems in the economy in the first place.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're joking Smile.

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michael


Posts: 3,235
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #38
30-05-2012 12:02 PM

Quote:
Spotlight on Forest Hill
Andy Coulson may be selling his SE23 home, but plenty of other people have spotted the appeal of Forest Hill


Forest Hill featured in the Evening Standard, Homes and Property Section today
http://www.homesandproperty.co.uk/area_g...thill.html

Sings the praises of the area but I would take issue with:

Quote:
Staying power: families who want to educate their children in the state sector tend to move out to Beckenham and Kent once their children start approaching secondary school age.

True, some do, but most don't.

(Thanks Nick on SEC)

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #39
30-05-2012 12:34 PM

Should also be a piece on the Horniman Gardens in the Telegraph soon to add to article in the Observer last week.

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dunc_30


Posts: 54
Joined: Aug 2011
Post: #40
30-05-2012 05:05 PM

'Just over a year on, however, and the “Tube bounce” has failed to materialise'

I don't think anyone should be surprised by this fact - we're not in a property boom. Mortgage lending hasn't improved so this doesn't tell us anything we don't already know.

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