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old macdonalds
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drobnik


Posts: 2
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #1
10-02-2008 07:37 PM

I heard a roumor that planning permission was being sought for the old macdonalds site next to Sainsburys, anyone got any info on this?

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #2
10-02-2008 08:14 PM
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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #3
11-02-2008 11:39 AM

On one hand I am pleased that this eye sore is being dealt with but cannot help but wonder where the occupants of the flats will park their cars. As much as we live in a utopia where everyone should ride bicycles (storage for such in the plans for the new building) reality suggests differently.

The other thing is the retail part of the building, there is still no site of any applications for the Sainsburys retail site, Lattitude still remains empty and the furniture shop is closing.

More new built retail stores that will be boarded up from day one?

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #4
11-02-2008 12:02 PM

There was some more building activity in the old Latitude unit on Saturday...but I reckon it is just being used as a builders workshop to wind us all up.

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Sandy67


Posts: 48
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #5
11-02-2008 02:12 PM

if you look at the 100 year old pictures of london road , every single unit was a shop ...

are we going backwards ?

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #6
11-02-2008 03:19 PM

SANDY67 Wrote:
if you look at the 100 year old pictures of london road , every single unit was a shop ...

are we going backwards ?


I think David Whiting posted something explaining how this wasn't feasible any more some time back. It made interesting reading so I'll try and track it down.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #7
11-02-2008 03:23 PM

David Whiting Wrote:
There are over 150 retail premises in Forest Hill centre, 40 or more at the Kirkdale/Dartmouth Road junction, 200 in Sydenham, and a few dozen more on Perry Vale, Catford Hill etc. In this area in total, there live around 42-45,000 people. So we have one shop to every 80 people, or one shop, say, to every 35-40 households. A small unit in Forest Hill carries rent and rates of around ?10,000 pa, insurance, heating, lighting, depreciation and stock costs. On top of this, assume two workers at the national average wage. Divide the figure at which you arrive by the shops average margin expressed as a decimal and you will know what income each shop needs to survive. I suspect that unless every household in the neighbourhood spends between ?150-200 per week in small shops there is not much future for all of them. Honestly I think this is where the thinking needs to start.

...

I've looked at unit size in Forest Hill, and it is noticeable that they are on the whole very small compared to other areas (probably too small in many cases to make a go of it) though as Rob also points out, a wider range of unit size might help

There is some interesting retail history here. In the late 19th century, there were over 400 units in the Forest Hill area. Numbers have fallen ever since, and I would suspect that at some point in the late 19th, early 20th century, units in Dartmouth Road were split into two by desperate landlords (look at the street numbering).

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #8
11-02-2008 03:31 PM

Just to point out, though, also, that there are other contributors on the site who disagree with that analysis - it's in the archive Smile

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vipes


Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #9
11-02-2008 03:45 PM

Yes IWereAbsolutelyFuming, 120 shops for each Forest Hill resident as memory serves. Or maybe the other way round. Either way it's too many especially when most people pootle off to pray to the Bluewater mammon when they "need a few bits".

A bone of contention I recall but shops must become flats. But when they do this should surely be at the **** end of Dartmouth Road. This would foster a commercial centre into which the likes of Provender might be seduced. Currently it's an embarrassment.

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vipes


Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #10
11-02-2008 03:46 PM

Oh, even worse, 80.

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hoppy


Posts: 43
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #11
11-02-2008 09:07 PM

i heard its going to be a farm.

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hoppy


Posts: 43
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #12
11-02-2008 09:09 PM

(as in old macdonalds)
(sorry)

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ForestGump


Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #13
11-02-2008 10:09 PM

So how is it explained in areas such as Clapham and Turnham Green I've seen the number of shops increase where I don't think there's been regeneration or an influx of people. For example Devonshire Road, Turnham Green has turned round in 2 years. All are small shops and if a shop closes someone jumps in to replace it with another.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #14
12-02-2008 11:01 AM

Ah yes, Clapham and Turnham Green. Those areas notoriously untouched by gentrification, streets of limited footfall where the limited local population needs only a bookie, a pawnbroker, a cheque cashier and a fried chicken shop in which to spend its giros.

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Sandy67


Posts: 48
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #15
12-02-2008 02:21 PM

hilltopgeneral Wrote:
Ah yes, Clapham and Turnham Green. Those areas notoriously untouched by gentrification, streets of limited footfall where the limited local population needs only a bookie, a pawnbroker, a cheque cashier and a fried chicken shop in which to spend its giros.





we have 2 bookies RolleyesGlare

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #16
20-02-2008 04:38 PM

Wandering slightly off topic..

If I remember correctly, this application was originally denied, as was the application to demolish the Red Cross and Pizza Hut down the road. However, they have both now been approved.

Planning Applications for 6-8 London Road Pizza Hut / Red Cross
DC/07/66608 10/08/07 New Construction. The substantial demolition of 6-8 London Road SE23 and construction of a part single/part three/part four storey building, plus basement, retaining the existing shop front and entrance lobby to No.6 and incorporating balconies / terraces, comprising a retail unit on the ground floor / basement and 5, one bedroom, self-contained flats above.
DC/07/66609 10/08/07 Substantial Demolition
DC/07/65667/FT 18/05/07 Demolition
DC/07/65320/X 18/05/07 New Construction. The construction of a single storey extension to the rear of 6-8 London Road SE23 and additional storeys at first, second and third floor levels, incorporating balconies/terraces, to provide 5, one bedroom, self-contained flats, together with alterations to the shop front at No. 8.
DC/07/65321/X 04/04/07 Demolition

Looks like the new shop will be a single unit, so we'll lose either the Red Cross or Pizza Hut.

Planning Applications for 26-28 London Rd McDonalds
DC/07/65752 25/05/07 Demolition of first floor
DC/07/65749/FT 25/05/07 New Construction. The construction of three additional storeys at first, second and third floor levels incorporating balconies and roof terraces, above the commercial shop units at 26-28 London Road SE23, together with a four-storey extension to the side, to provide 2 one bedroom and 7 two bedroom, self-contained flats, the installation of new shop fronts, alterations to the elevations and provision of 8 cycle spaces and bin stores.


The original plans for McDonalds were similar to the apartments above Sainsbury's, however the approved plans show a flat roofed building.

Why would they would want to keep the ground floor and basement, or is this some conservation area ruse?

You could, of course, rent the McDonalds premises for ?85,000 pa while work is going on Wink

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
20-02-2008 05:42 PM

Check the link: blockbusters departed...

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #18
22-02-2008 07:39 PM

IWereAbsolutelyFuming Wrote:

David Whiting Wrote:
I suspect that unless every household in the neighbourhood spends between ?150-200 per week in small shops there is not much future for all of them. Honestly I think this is where the thinking needs to start.


On my maths, Dave seems to have assumed an average mark up on basic cost price of 25%. I've no knowledge of retail, but that sounds low to me. So the picture may not be this bleak.

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