Yes, I wondered about the supposed correlation between homeownership/parenthood and lack of dog-fouling!

To suggest that those without children might not be as aware of the health risks of dog poo than those with children is hardly English Class prejudice Robin. That's not a prejudicial statement at all. It's not saying people without children don't know the risks, but those with children are perhaps more likely to know the risks, which on the whole could well be true. And don't people from all social classes have children?

I suppose it was mainly what I perceived as the anti-renter prejudice in the posting I quoted which struck me, Jon. So far as the childless are concerned, it may be, I agree, that they do not need to worry so much about toxicara canis as people with young children. But my impression is - someone will no doubt correct me if I am wrong - that the risk of toxicara from dog faeces deposited on pavements (as opposed to parks and playgrounds where toddlers are likely to be crawling around) is pretty tiny. The main objection to dog droppings on pavements is, I have always thought, an aesthetic one. I felt moved to challenge any implication (perhaps unintended) that childless people were likely to be more feckless and less concerned about living in an unpleasant environment than those with children were.

I don't think childlessness is a class issue! [/align]

Being a parent or being childfree isn't a class issue but renting v. homeownership is.

SoutheastEze did say that 'Perhaps a lot of the foulers (if you excuse the pun) are not homeowners or do not have children so are perhaps not as aware of the health consequences or do not feel much long-term attachment to the area and its cleanliness?'.

While I appreciate that this poster is temporarily renting themselves, I do not like their insinuation that renters/childfree people care less about an area. I have come across some real neighbours from hell who've been both homeowners and parents. And the opposite.

You're quite right of course, Jon. 'Class' in its normal sense doesn't apply in this case. But I still think there is a tendency to think of childless people as a group about whom sweeping generalisations can be made.

Reading it again, I don't think the point being made had anything to do with class. The point being made wasn't 'people who rent are of a lower social class and therefore don't mind dog poo everywhere'. Neither was it 'people who don't have kids don't mind poo everywhere'.

The point actually made (rightly or wrongly) was:

• People without kids might not be as aware as those who are parents about the dangers of dog poo.
• People who rent property may not feel as attached to an area (as they're only there short term) as those who own a house in the area and therefore not care as much about fouling on the streets

It's possible/probable that both these assertions are wrong, but I'm sure the OP wasn't trying to insinuate that the lower the social class you are, the less likely you are to care about dog poo.

On another point, if dog poo gets trodden into your house from the street, I don't see why it's any less dangerous than 'poo in a park'. But maybe you need it in greater concentrations than you get on your shoes to be dangerous. I don't know.

needs very little to be potentially dangerous.

Try Tachbrook Street in Pimlico for a serious poo problem...if we're talking class issues could it be 'too posh to pick up' round there?

I am a very permanent part of SE23 life as I've been here for over a decade but "only" rent.

Which is why I think the original assertion was wrong - (a) because many short term renters care about where they live, even if they only live there for a year, and (b) because there are long term renters who may as well be homeowners when it comes their attachment to the area.

Just a personal opinion, but I don't think it matters whether you rent somewhere or own vast tracts of land - dog mess in the street is unwelcome for everyone, whether you walk past it safely, or through it. And I can't believe that a dog owner leaves it with no recognition of the fact that they're doing a bad thing.

For what it's worth, I think that whether someone currently owns the place they live in or not is a very limited definition of "class" - but that's almost certainly a discussion for another thread.

I'd also guess (and this is purely based on my own experience and my friends) that childless couples (particularly where both members of the couple work) are generally a lot less likely to have pets, specifically dogs, than a family would be.

The problem does seem intermittently to be a lot worse in the area bounded by Garthorne and Bovill than north of the tracks (I too have lived in both places) but I think that's just a feature of the layout and the fact that you can walk a nice grid away from the main road, combined with one or two lazy dog-owners (or dog-walkers, maybe).

I really do feel like one or two people (and their treatment of their pets) makes a huge difference for this particular issue. Is it relevant whether they're Frank Gallagher or the Duke of Westminster? I think not - the mess they leave is equally unpleasant and unwelcome.

Sadly - and possibly of more relevance - I also think that it's pretty much impossible to prevent recurrence - anyone who currently lets their dog use the street as a toilet is unlikely to be aware of the fact that it's messy and dangerous and won't be likely to change their mind after being challenged.

I do like the idea of posting the poo through their letter box if you know where they live though. That might make them think twice!

The problem isn't just in the Honor Oak park area. Its also a big issue in the streets south of Stanstead Road - Vancouver Road, Kilmorie Road, Elsinore Road, Hurstbourne Road for example.

The walk to school and back is a nightmare. Very sad that one of my son's first spoken phrases was 'dog poo - yucky!' because he was so used to me pointing it out. I am always worried about the children walking in it. Blindness from dog poo is real not an old wives tale. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to clean it off buggy wheels, scooter wheels, carpets, shoes, trousers, coats and even hands. It is a nightmare and totally disgusting and irresponsible.

On the couple of occasions I have challenged dog owners for letting their dogs poo on my street, I have been ignored. One man said 'yeh its disgusting isn't it' and walked off. The other came up with the feeble excuse 'I will clean it up later' (which he didn't of course). I constantly report it to Love Lewisham but that isn't enough obviously.

I don't think the whole dog poo in parks and streets situation is really going to be helped by Lewisham Council proposing to remove all dog waste bins as one of their cost cutting measures (saving £55,000) due to central government funding cuts to local authorities.

The communal gardens at my block are frequently used as a dogs' toilet area by various dog owners who live in adjoining streets.

It's been an ongoing struggle to persuade the management company to do something about it - although I'm not sure any amount of 'no trespassing' signs will put these people off.
I find it infuriating and upsetting - my mum's partial sight loss as a child was caused by toxocariasis.

I have a small dog who poos on the pavement.. i note i pick it up but it does seem abit futile when you are picking up your own doggy doo doo that there is a great big one right next to it!! I too have been onto the council as the problem it particularly bad on my road. The council have put stencils on the pavement but the dogs dont seem to be able to read!! perhaps the council could offer shoe protectors to help alleiviate the suffering of the people who do clean up their dog **** and the people who dont have dogs!

Could there possibly be some radical solution to this? Why do dogs poo on the pavement? Is there some less anti-social pooing place that they would prefer, and if so what would it be like? Have 'dog toilets' ever been developed? I've never owned a dog so I've never got into all this. Cats don't poo on pavements, or patios or similar, because they seem to prefer soft earth and privacy.

Yes, it's vile and antisocial .....
but let's fly the flag ....

the film series:
   

As a mum and regular exerciser, I am often at Blythe Hill Park SE23 and surounding areas. There are some lovely dog owners up there who always say hello, hold there dogs when children are around and pick up there dogs poo.
However there are many that just turn a blind eye to the fact that there dog is fouling. When I ask them please can they pick it up, I am often ignored! (i dont speak any more incase i get punched in the face!)

Who do we complain to? the council?

Lewisham have a dog fouling hot line!

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/S...ouling.htm

Perhaps we need a concerted effort to report every turd.
Then maybe, maybe, someone in the Council might come up with some new ideas.
We see the fine signs, but does anyone know if they are ever administered?

Think my 'favourite' has to be the woman who uses her elderly companion's disabled badge to get her car access to Dulwich Park so it can crawl around at 2mph behind their small dog. That winds me up enough but I've also seen the dog take a dump on a few occasions and them not bother to get out and clear it up.