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HoP House Prices
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squashst


Posts: 129
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #1
22-02-2011 03:56 PM

Couldn't help but note Pickwick estates are selling 4 bedroomed houses in Gabiel St / Bellina St in the 525k / 550k bracket. Very nice houses indeed with loft extensions. But quite serious money for end of terrace, no garage? Perhaps a sign of things to come with - to quote the advert - "the much talked about East London Line" (soon to extend to Highbury & Islington - though the Chandos perhaps needs a bit of work to compete with H&I watering holes!).

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #2
22-02-2011 04:58 PM

We have not learnt that high house prices helps nobody.

Surely an area can be nice to live in without discussing house prices. I would not think they are doing that in Eire.

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michael


Posts: 3,197
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #3
22-02-2011 05:41 PM

Properties in Forest Hill and Honor Oak continue to be excellent value for London.

Average price in SE23 in Nov '10 = 307k

Average price in London in Nov '10 = 448k

SE23 house prices are less than 70% of the London average. Even East Dulwich at 376k is only at 84% of the average.

This is good news for property buyers in the local area, particularly first time buyers, but I do think that our area is above average for London in so many ways (green space, views, connections to Central London and Dockland, coffee shop index, quality of schools, etc), I don't see why this isn't reflected in house prices.

Is it because we are more than 20 minutes from a motorway to get out of London, because trains don't run after midnight, or are we just on the wrong side of the river?

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mrcee


Posts: 128
Joined: May 2010
Post: #4
22-02-2011 06:38 PM

I think its because its a less transient area compared to others so it will take longer to reflect the value of the area due to a relatively low turnover. I recently had this issue with a remortgage which was motivated by reducing interest rate due to a higher LTV. The index used by the bank vs the valuation by the surveryor had a delta of 100k! I think the house is probably in the middle/top of the valuations. Once more people capitalise on the value and sell up then the reflection of average will be more true however the area will also lose its feel.

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Nolwenn


Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #5
23-02-2011 02:00 PM

Yes, house prices are higher - I think it depends on what you have done to the house and whether there is a loft conversion or nicely done.

People do not want to have to do lots of work on a house.

I am glad we have a garden, there is still work to do on our place but we wil get there. We moved to Forest Hill last March.

But I think the reason is not as expensive as other places like Dulwich or Battersea is that there is no real high street, there are no chains such as Prezzo and Caffe Nero that attract young professionals like us.

There are building flats for completion summer 2012 near Savacentre on the other side of Forest Hill near Lower Sydenham so this is going to be a good addition but not the same as in Dulwich.

I am not sure if Dulwich was like forest hill before and the shops opened later on?

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sonny


Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 2010
Post: #6
23-02-2011 03:44 PM

It's interesting seeing your thoughts. I've lived in HOP for a couple of years now but I first moved to East Dulwich 15 years ago so I've seen an area gentrify first hand. When I first moved there I'd walk into a pub and the music would stop because I was too posh. Now the music stops because I'm too rough and I scare the kids.

The debate rages as to what drives house prices up but there are a few factors that are always needed to really cement and stabilise an area.

Transience is one thing. The more a property changes hands and the more people move into an area the higher the prices will generally go. An area will struggle to have that transience without good transport links and until now (ELL extension) SE23 hasn't really had those links to cater for "fall out of bed onto the tube" 9 to 5 workers that will pay slightly over the odds for convenience and a lovely flat. The catch twenty two is that property developers will not spend money making these lovely flats until they see signs of that demographic moving in.

So once we get past this little Mexican standoff we then need good schools in the area, predominantly junior schools, as these will attract the families who will occupy the houses for a longer amount of time than the transient flat buyers. A family with three kids could stay in the same house for well over 10 years. This ties up the supply of stock so when a new house comes to be sold the demand will outstrip the supply and drive the house prices up. HOP seems to have benefitted from this factor more than FH with Fairlawn and Stillness schools both being outstanding in the OFSTED reports.

Now the houses get more expensive and so do the flats. The young professionals move into the flats and houses because they can now get into work with the minimum amount of stress and they bring with them lots of disposable income. As hard as the try they can't spend all of it in the Chandos (even on a football night when they HAVE to buy alcohol by order of the management) so they look for new places to spend their hard earned cash and it's always nice to spend your money closer to home.

A nice florist moves in and sells proper flowers not cheap garage tat. Then a trendy coffee shop, Tapas bar, Estate Agent and before you know it your run down parade is starting to look a little like a high street. Entrepreneurs and businesses will see this and feel like they should get involved and before you know it you have a high street full of chain stores and people that no longer look you in the eye and pubs that serve over priced food and don't play loud music and throw you out for swearing under your breath. Or something like that.

Rising house prices and the gentrification of an area is not always a good thing but not always a bad thing I think as long as the area can maintain some kind of identity with its independence and not get completely swallowed up by the corporate identities trying to suck all of the profit out an area under the guise of "convenience on your door step" type rubbish.

Sorry this turned into a rant didn't it?

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squashst


Posts: 129
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #7
23-02-2011 04:13 PM

Not a rant at all - fair comment and balanced I think. I was in Forest Hill for about 15 years then moved down to HOP 4 years ago. I think the new Transport links will change the area. Outside the main rush hour), my house to Canary Wharf desk on 33rd floor (and yes, I'm a banker but not an investment banker!) is 30 mins, not touching zone 1. To Stratford / Olympics 45 mins? Likewise from next week to Highbury and Islington.

This will change the area - and certainly there is already severe pressure on side streets / parking (especially at HOP where the predominantly Edwardian houses are lovely, but its street parking, increasingly used by out of towners.

I enjoy the area, I love the greenery and the hills and the relative lack of chain shops. The last I suspect will change. As you say, when an area becomes more popular there are up-sides and down-sides.

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #8
23-02-2011 04:23 PM

sonny Wrote:
Transience is one thing. The more a property changes hands and the more people move into an area the higher the prices will generally go. An area will struggle to have that transience without good transport links and until now (ELL extension) SE23 hasn't really had those links to cater for "fall out of bed onto the tube" 9 to 5 workers that will pay slightly over the odds for convenience and a lovely flat. The catch twenty two is that property developers will not spend money making these lovely flats until they see signs of that demographic moving in.


East Dulwich doesn't have particularly good transport links though. Worse than Froest Hill pre ELL for a lot of ED.

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sonny


Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 2010
Post: #9
23-02-2011 04:26 PM

You're right about the parking on the back streets of HOP. I have a few friends that live on Ballina and Bovil and they're so fed up with the parking that they'd welcome residents permits. I think the majority of local residents would agree.

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sonny


Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 2010
Post: #10
23-02-2011 04:37 PM

Quote:
East Dulwich doesn't have particularly good transport links though. Worse than Froest Hill pre ELL for a lot of ED.


You're right but most of the house buying activity in ED was speculative waiting for the ELL to go through. By time the actual line was finalised the area had already started to establish itself. Ed also benefitted from good state schools Heber and Goodrich and also being less than a mile away from the fee paying scholls of Dulwich Village.

You can still get into London Bridge in 12 minutes and in a TFL zonal sense Ed is closer in and riplle effect etc will dictate that given a certain amount of factors the closer areas gentrify first and then the overspill starts to benefit the surrounding areas. I think that a lot of people are now starting to see HOP and FH as a far better alternative to ED. I certainly did.

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mrcee


Posts: 128
Joined: May 2010
Post: #11
23-02-2011 11:17 PM

interestingly enough a few people in East Dulwich on the below thread are now considering HOP/Nunhead etc due to the cheaper house prices

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/...953,page=1

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showtunesgirl


Posts: 203
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #12
24-02-2011 10:58 AM

The prices even at the lower end are NOT good for First Time Buyers. I earn an average wage and there is no way we can afford to buy in this area now. And to be honest, it's more worth our while right now to keep renting as the mortgage repayment would be prohibitively expensive.

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chantelle


Posts: 40
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #13
24-02-2011 08:16 PM

as a potential buyer in HOP, I'd have to say I'd be very surprised if the two houses mentioned went for anything near the asking price. case in point a house on Lowther Hill has just been marked down to 500k from 540k. Even that is ambitious, I'd say.

The HOP primary schools are a massive draw (along with relatively lower prices) but sadly the high street is a disappointment compared with Lordship Lane or even Bellenden Road (Peckham Rye).

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #14
24-02-2011 08:32 PM

Be very careful before you vote for parking permits. We voted for them and a lot of people have regretted it. The cost went up a lot from the original amount and we now have traffic wardens here all the time, ready to pounce. They work on commission, presumably. Not saying don't do it - just check with other areas first. It seems to be impossible to ever go back.

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movingsouth


Posts: 35
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #15
25-02-2011 09:44 AM

Living with residential parking is ok for the residents but my friends (lazy, they drive everywhere I must admit) will only want to come in the evening, so no chance for a cuppa midd afternoon
Ok there are the guest tickets but still....[/u]

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ringingcod


Posts: 84
Joined: Jun 2005
Post: #16
25-02-2011 11:57 AM

Quote:
The HOP primary schools are a massive draw (along with relatively lower prices) but sadly the high street is a disappointment compared with Lordship Lane or even Bellenden Road (Peckham Rye).


Not sure it's totally fair to compare LL with HOP - ours is a small parade of shops whereas LL is a fully functioning High St. And Bellenden Rd has had a stack of regeneration cash thrown at it (and it needed it) - HOP is having to evolve organically.

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Ruddiger


Posts: 20
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #17
25-02-2011 12:39 PM

Lordship Lane and Bellenden Road were nothing special 10 years ago. HOP's high street is improving all the time.

I think part of the reason the area is under-valued is just that people don't know about it. But maybe that's changing - I saw an ex-colleague last night and when I told her I lived in HOP, instead of the usual blank look, she said that her friend had just moved there.

Also, I think it is taking a while for people outside the area to realise how useful the East London Line is but again, I think that's changing.

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squashst


Posts: 129
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #18
27-03-2011 07:24 PM

Well - the 2 terrace houses that I mentioned in the first post have been sold - pretty quick. Which in some ways I find rather frightening, given the asking price. Pickwick Estates must be quite pleased. But then I heard that those who can't afford to buy in say Wapping are looking further down the ELL. One day they will look at Penge perhaps.

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chantelle


Posts: 40
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #19
09-05-2011 12:09 PM

there's a house for sale in Agnew Road with no loft extension 3 beds and 1 single for 525k. supposedly got bid at asking price. This just sounds way too high for HOP - surely the 500k mark has rarely been breached? nice house though.

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davidl


Posts: 180
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #20
09-05-2011 01:11 PM

That's sort of unsurprising - the terraces in Agnew are some of the most spacious in the area bounded by Garthorne/Bovill/Grierson and there hasn't been much movement in the last while.

When the converted large terrace on Bovill was on the market (not sure whether it's eventually been sold yet) for 600k that seemed more of a shock.

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