I still think throughout this discussion there is an underestimation here about what the relatives of deceased people want and how important it is to have a place to grieve, and why a lot of people come to graveyards. Not everyone will be visiting the grave of a much loved grandmother who has lived a long and happy life and who died peacefully at 95. There will be many unhappy stories and relatives who may have trouble accepting that their loved ones are gone. Some will be young; there is a childrens section in the other part of the graveyard and I do see people there regularly tending to the graves. I have a friend who lost her husband when he was only 35 and she visits his grave weekly if not more. She has done this for 4 years as she cannot accept he is gone. Gradually through these visits she is letting go but it will take time.

I am guessing and hoping that the part of the discussion talking about burying people under football pitches is tongue in cheek however there may indeed be some people whos dying wish is to be buried under the turf at Anfield or Elland Road, but that probably isn't for everybody.

I just find there is a lot of dismissal on this thread about the impact of losing loved ones which is probably because few people these days actually experience death in the family until they reach middle age due to life expectancy and health care standards. I went to a tour around Nunhead cemetary some time ago; its very interesting stuff so I'd recommend it; the guy running it talked about the Victorian experience of death, as it was all around and most people had experienced bereavement by the time they were adolescents. Infant mortality was high as was the death of young children before 5 years old. It was everywhere and there was no hiding from it. Now we experience death largely through the media when there are massacres abroad or young soldiers are brought home in body bags. Its mostly third hand.

The point Michael made about the satellite cemetaries such as Highgate and Nunhead are true but these were largely for the rich who bought their plots and mauseloums as status symbols. They were purchased in order that people could get access to fairly large plots. The poor were still buried in church yards or even in common ground just outside as there was also a pecking order of who could get inside the church grounds.

I don't think therefore talking about putting a heavy tax on burial is the right approach. There will still be people of various faiths who won't cremate. And a lot of people already have to fork out £2000 for a basic funeral and find it hard to pay those bills.

If Southwark can support through projections a need to regain this space then I can't see how we can realistically prevent them. You won't change hearts and minds about cremation that easily and quickly. Where else are we going to bury people?

I do think also the tone of some of these posts is that death is something that happens to other people. But these people are us and will be us.