I understand there was a meeting earlier this month on the long term plans of HOP recreation ground. Does anyone know what proposals were put forward for the future of the park? Are they planning to turn the rest of the park into a cemetery?
Yes, there were 3 consultation meetings on proposed works to Camberwell Old and New Cemeteries. There are some issues around access to Honor Oak Rec which came out at the meeting I attended but it seems safe from burial use as agreed in 2012
Take a closer look at the maps to get a better idea:
In true doublespeak fashion Southwark use two words on the last page which are completely absent from what is actually happening - "sustainable" and "strategy".
You don't need to be an urban planner with twenty years' experience to know that there simply isn't enough land left to allow urban burials to continue.
The problem is that policy for these sites is set by the Southwark councillors and they are terrified of losing votes with those Southwark residents who are still in favour or burial.
So, every few years, they now have to run around looking for another temporary fix. In the meantime it is a simple choice; reduce amenity for (mainly) Lewisham residents or lose votes.
The continued use of urban open space for burial is also another classic example of intergenerational unfairness with the old (by which I mean the relatives of the deceased) depriving the young of amenity space.
PS Local councils are under no statutory obligation to provide burial spaces.
“[This] involves the enlargement of an existing glade area through the clearance of existing shrub vegetation and tree groups comprising small trees, and the removal of 13 mature trees”
This is to start later this year.
Also later, there are plans to clear areas D1 and D2 which are currently woodland with mature native trees and boarder the One Tree Hill reserve. They effectively part of the same wood and the fence means they are less disturbed so even more important to wildlife.
I also attended the meeting just before xmas and the park is safe from any burial use hopefully for at least 25 years however there is confusion over access issues.
The entrance currently used just up by the train station will no longer be accessible to the general public instead a new entrance (and car park) will be created alongside the train station ( you would enter the park where the picnic area is now). The existing entrance will be used for Cemetery business only and therefore I am unsure how people with allotments will gain access.
Now there is confusion if this new entrance will be the only access into the park and if so you could end up with a Southwark park not accessible to Southwark residents!!!! It is important all residents ( Southwark or Lewisham) can still use and enjoy this green space.
However the overall aim is to make the cemetery and park completely separate which is a shame because the park and cemetery have existed in harmony together for many years.
Resulting from the views and concerns expressed by those who attended the 3 meetings last year, Southwark Council have realised that residents would like a further meeting! Too right!
This is planned for Wed 11 Feb 7-8.30 pm at Honor Oak Baptist church, Forest Hill Rd, SE22 0SG (opposite the Forest Hill Tavern/The Rose)
Exhibition of plans there from 2 pm where you can speak to a council officer as well
Bumble is right saying there is confusion about the proposed access into the Recreation ground from Brenchley Gardens.
If you look at the plans, it is difficult to make out the entry points and there is a plan to fence off the current gap behind the cemetery office. The reason for this is given as a health and safety issue with pedestrians coming out onto the cemetery road near the office and possibly getting mown down by a hearse or other vehicle! Buy one, get one free!?
It would be an irony if Southwark residents who live that side have difficulty accessing a Southwark recreation ground! At the meeting, this seemed to have been either overlooked or a decision not made - so it's important that people think what they want/need and convey that to the council before it's too late!
All they need to do is have a narrow pedestrian entrance in addition, which is separate from the main entrance. That way pedestrians won't get mowed down by traffic entering or exiting the cemetery. In fact, I thought they had a narrow exit right next to the main car entrance.
This post was last modified: 13-01-2015 10:25 PM by Poppet2.
Yes, there is a pedestrian gate next to the main cemetery one on Brenchley gardens but that's not the concern. Once you have gone through that gate, then under or round the crem office archway, you then have easy access to the recreation ground either through the well-used gap in the fence/hedge or indeed through the closely located pedestrian gate. This is the issue - whether this access or the one nearer the kids' playground is going to be maintained.
If anyone else has any clarification on this, it would be useful to know
As a resident living on Honor Oak Park Road - I'm surprised I haven't had a letter through about this...
(As an Architect who can understand consultation proposals) -
What jumps out at me is that what is effectively being proposed is a new (presumably potentially busy) new public 'working' cemetery entrance onto Honor Oak Park (Road). Not only is it on Honor Oak Park, it is right next to the station - i.e. the near centre of our community...
This raises a few issues for me:
I don't want to have as a centre piece to my local townscape a working entrance to a cemetery / and cemetery carpark. Saying it will be screened by existing foliage is a classic consultation 'BS' line....trust me. It will always be perceivable as a new landmark in our community.
There is already presumably an established entrance elsewhere that doesn't face straight onto a residential area? This should be kept and not a new one created in HOP.
Is this cemetery for Lewisham 'ex-'residents or southwark ex-residents? ...if it just for southwark this would make the entrance location proposals extra bizarre.
Sorry to say this but I don't want a visible burial ground anywhere near the Honor Oak Park road / honor Oak park centre - The area is going in the right direction currently and I get angry at the thought of this kind of nonsense bringing the area down. Just because it isn't a dominos being proposed doesn't mean we can't still challenge it robustly?
I would say ditch the working entrance / public cemetery carpark onto Honor Oak Park- and at the very least make it imperceptible from the road. The cemetery workers / visitors will have to manage as they are doing now for access..
We HOPpers must be spared the views of tarmac, tomb stones and lined up hearses that would be inevitable if these plans would go ahead.
...since this part of HOP wasn't included in the honor oak park and crofton community area plan - I'm guessing the residents are in a very weak position...thanks a lot!
Well said tincan - especially the last bit about our bit of Honor Oak being left out of the Crofton Park/Honor Oak Park neighbourhood forum, which could have supported a strong case against these plans.
Excellent valid point, why send more traffic flow on a road already congested ( at certain times in the day) with more traffic!!!!
However I do beleive it will be for Southwark work vehicles only and not hearses, these will still use the current main entrances. However I am unsure if the new carpark will also serve as parking for people attending funerals and graves as they want no traffic flow in the cemetery at all!! They have purchased a buggy which I suppose will take the elderly or infirm to graves but really why change entrances ( both park and cemetery) which have worked well up to now!!
and maybe I miss understood the blurry plans of the consultation panels. - whoops!
my refined thoughts:
I think the proposal is simply relocating the existing car park associated with the rec - and a new dedicated pedestrian access is funnelled around the new burial zone - hard up against the railway zone.
I think this in fact may work - however there are some important points to consider.
It is too late now - but it is a shame the position of burial zones are now landlocking the rec. It would've been better to have a piece of openspace more associated Honor Oak Park Road. Now we are left with the option of a car park directly off the road and a pedestrian path leading off to the rec.
This route needs to feel safe - feel wide and generous and be well lit etc. We have not been shown any visuals of what this route would look and feel like - how does the landscaping work along here- how do the boundary treatments work and what is the design quality of the entrance nodes? - if not thought about ..it will look grim and feel grim.
As drawn I would suggest it all looks a bit tight- but I don't know if some of the embankment could be spread into - to make the link more of a feature - and definitely more wide i.e more like 4-5m wide rather than 2m/2.4m wide . this would also make it usable for bikes/ prams and people passing etc
Yes also just having one access into the park will make the park feel very isolated and what will happen to the Green Chain walk? Currently you can access the park from three main sites, Honor Oak, Brenchley Gardens and of course Brockley. Therefore if a big burly dog (or person!!!) enters the park and you don't fancy your chances,you can make a quick exit however this will no longer be the case.
I really do feel these plans have not taken residents and park users views into consideration.
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