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HOP Recreation Ground to Become a Cemetery?
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PaperBagBadger


Posts: 24
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #141
26-09-2011 07:27 AM

Fantastic turnout for the meeting on Saturday and Southwark Council were given the message loud and clear that the community want the Rec kept as an open green space - for today's generation and tomorrow's

if you haven't returned one of their cemeteries questionnaire though, you only have till this friday 30 september when the consultation closes - so do it NOW! and pass this message onto all your family, friends and neighbours!

southwark cemeteries questionnaire

friends of honor oak rec blogspot

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #142
26-09-2011 08:44 AM

Roz Wrote:
the problems in 'death' not being visible to the living- it also takes away a great deal of history

Camberwell cemetery already takes up quite a large amount of space and nobody is suggesting that all the bodies should be exhumed to make way for shopping malls. The question is how much more visible we need to make death and at what cost?

Centralising all the burials into Honor Oak seems unfair on other communities that do not have such sight of death, and it would be much better to have small cemetery areas in every Southwark park. I often go to Dulwich park without any reminders of the dead, surely it would only be fair to bury some people there?
Perhaps that would still not give the dead the rights and freedom of choice that they deserve. One Tree Hill would be a good spot for Buddist Sky Burials and we could arrange for a committee of vultures (or dog walkers) to be based on the hill.

Since Victorian times the dead from major cities in this country have been buried on the outskirts of the city. Once this meant Highgate and Nunhead, but now it means Bromley, Croydon, and locations close to the M25. If you live in Westminster or Tower Hamlets you cannot be buried in the borough. I'm not sure what makes them different to Southwark.

It is far more important for children to be able to play sport close to home than to walk amongst the dead.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #143
26-09-2011 08:52 AM

coffins for goalposts?

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #144
26-09-2011 09:39 AM

Roz, what about the future generation and their history?

If there is not a change in burial policy now regarding the reuse of graves then there will be no option of burial in the future.
We can not loose the rec because it does not solve the problem of burial in the long run,it would only be short term but our green space would be lost forever!

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languagelounger


Posts: 28
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #145
28-09-2011 04:59 PM

Here's a letter from the senior responsible Council officer in July 1999, telling Dr Neal of Honor Oak Health Centre that the "problem" was solved, following, guess what, a public consultation on the future of the burials service in Southwark...

And here is what they promised.... if Southwark Council took another 3 acres of Honor Oak Rec (5.5 acres had already gone in 1992), they would then also start making sustainable use of the existing cemeteries, for example using grave spaces that had been bought but never used, and that together all this would last for "25 to 50 years" (so until 2025 or 2050) and that "Once this provision has been exhausted cremation will become the only option."

They did take another 3 acres (plus) of public open land - but following public outcry, they took this from the Old Nurseries Site, not the Rec, which was the least worst option they would offer. And that big chunk of land has apparently been used up completely between 2001 and 2011? Not 25 to 50 years then. A good question to ask might be: at what point was it realised that the plan laid out in the attached letter was not, apparently, going to work? Who realised, when, and how was it reported?

I do think people should be aware of just how much park land they are selling as grave plots, how quickly it goes, and that if they did take the rest of the Rec, it would be gone in a flash and then they will be after Peckham Rye. Southwark is the only local authority in the whole of the UK that is even thinking about selling off parks for graves.



Attached File(s)
.pdf File  1999 SC claim 25 to 50 years.pdf (Size: 38.04 KB / Downloads: 153)
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ruthb


Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #146
29-09-2011 07:17 AM

well said Michael Thumbup

It does seem like we are completely overrun with cemeteries around here as it is - had never considered where inner london boroughs might bury their residents.

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mel


Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 2011
Post: #147
29-09-2011 11:25 AM

We definitely need to keep Honor Oak Recreation Ground as a recreation ground. Southwark failed to consult locals on how the questionnaire should be worded and definitely included a bias towards using the park as a cemetery. But if enough people fill out their questionnaire by 30 September (TOMORROW - FRIDAY) we can try and stop them.

Here's the link: http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200308/...meteries/1

and please also sign this petition: http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/sa...oakparkrec

More information about the campaign can be found on the Friends of Honor Oak Recreation Ground’s blog too: http://honoroakparkrecreationground.blogspot.com/

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mrwandle


Posts: 73
Joined: Sep 2011
Post: #148
29-09-2011 02:40 PM

I'll happily sign a legal document stating I'll be cremated when the time comes, if enough Southwark residents do that then they won't need to turn as much space into graves.

I'd rather enjoy the park when I'm alive thanks.

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languagelounger


Posts: 28
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #149
01-10-2011 02:57 PM

Just wanted to share that there seems to have been a problem with the recording of the "consultation" forms by Southwark Council. It looks like the email account at Southwark that the forms were automatically sent to became full sometime before the closing date. At that point, although it looked as though your form was being received and you would have been given a reference number, your form would actually just have bounced back - and the message telling you this might be in your junk mail box so please check. This is what happened to mine.

I completed my form and the final screen confirmed that it had been submitted, and gave me a reference number, 112772.

Today I checked my junk mail box and found a message from saying that my form had not been delivered. The email message was:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
Delivery to the following recipients failed: Parks@southwark.gov.uk

Presumably the mailbox at parks@southwark.gov.uk became full and anyone who submitted their form after the mailbox was full won't have their response counted, unless they retrieve the bounced message from their junk box and resubmit to Southwark. The bounce message comes from "postmaster@southwark.gov.uk".

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languagelounger


Posts: 28
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #150
16-10-2011 12:28 PM

Prince William saves Rec?

Well, we live in times when the "Labour Party" is busily trying sell off a public park while quoting Victorian values as its excuse (by which they mean snobbery and superstition) while the Monarchy is engaged in trying to save public open spaces (following in the actual rational and public spirited tradition of Prince Albert).

Please can we get the Rec on this list? Haven''t had time to read in detail but could be worth following up.

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #151
16-10-2011 07:16 PM

Language Lounger the rec has already been put forward to be saved as part of the Queen Elizabeth II 2012 Fields Challenge which Prince William is patron of.They want to celebrate the Diamond Jubilee by saving 2012 fields.

Rob Hardy the regional Manager from Fields in Trust was at the meeting a couple of weeks back and is doing all he can to get Southwark to agree to join up and is working with the friends group.

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onetree


Posts: 1
Joined: Apr 2012
Post: #152
30-04-2012 01:14 PM

It looks like Southwark Council will plough ahead with their plans to turn parts of the Rec and area adjacent to Honor Oak Park station into a graveyard.

Despite the counsultations....

Strategy paper is out as of today.

http://moderngov.southwark.gov.uk/mgConv...x?ID=28623

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #153
30-04-2012 01:48 PM

From what I can see the area proposed is not currently part of the Rec, but between the car park and Honor Oak Park road. This would leave all the park/playing area untouched.

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GreenGrass


Posts: 21
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #154
30-04-2012 01:55 PM

Thanks OneTree for posting this. Can you post the whole link please? Is there a map?

I understand that area B is the area where Gristwood and Toms and the old Southwark Nursery site used to be. Area C is part of this but not sure how B and C are split. Definitely between the carpark, the drive in, the main road and the station though. So not the Rec - unless there's been some messing around with the reference letters.

I think D1 might be a triangular area at the back corner of the current cemetery on the boundary of OTH and the allotments. Looking at the map which went to Cabinet last year, the estimated number of spaces for that area was 100 which ties up almost.

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #155
30-04-2012 02:12 PM



Area C does not appear to have been included as burial space.

Relevant links: http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/fi...y_strategy
http://www.southwark.gov.uk/downloads/fi...ppendicies

   

This post was last modified: 30-04-2012 02:13 PM by michael.

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GreenGrass


Posts: 21
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #156
30-04-2012 02:13 PM

just found the full report, takes a long time to download but just read this critical bit:

"Second, other than for some limited areas of public burial, most areas of Camberwell New do not become ‘old’ enough for re-use until at least 2045, by which time all the
short and medium term options will have been exhausted. Some of the shortfall in capacity might be made up by taking up a portion of Honor Oak Park, (1/3rd) whilst retaining the football pitches and substantively enhancing the remainder of the Park.
Recognising that this is likely to be unpopular and, at this point in time, not an option preferred by the Council the Strategy considers it essential that the authority should also conduct a review of Nunhead Cemetery to ascertain whether, mindful of the particular sensitivities and status of that cemetery, there is any scope for limited reclamation/re-use in conjunction with restoration. In addition, working in partnership with other London authorities, the council should seek to secure alternative burial space, (potentially also including natural burial space) by way of an additionallandholding."


So at first glance, it seems that the Council will only move on the Rec if all their other stratgies fall short in 27 years! Is that reason for optimism?!

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #157
30-04-2012 04:40 PM

I have not read the full report yet and I know it has to be passed by the Southwark Cabinet in June but it seems like us local people have done a good job in saving the rec when we were in real danger of loosing all or part of it!

Well done Friends of Honor Oak Rec for leading a good campaign

This post was last modified: 30-04-2012 04:45 PM by Bumble.

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admin
Administrator

Posts: 395
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #158
26-06-2012 03:48 PM

http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/News.cfm?id=22340

Quote:
Southwark council’s cabinet approved plans on Tuesday to use a former council nursery at Camberwell New Cemetery, in Brenchley Gardens, to create new burial plots.

The first phase of the plans will involve creating 1,600 plots there by 2015.

Further space will be created there and at Camberwell Old Cemetery, in Forest Hill Road, by reclaiming plots that are more than 75 years old.

The decision means proposals to use part of Honor Oak recreation ground, next to the New Cemetery site, will not go ahead in the immediate future.

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wayfarer


Posts: 119
Joined: Nov 2006
Post: #159
28-06-2012 09:21 AM

This is fantatsic news, and just goes to show that the council will listen if we shout loud enough.

Thanks must go to those that viewed their opinions.

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henryb2


Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #160
28-06-2012 10:16 AM

I am not sure it is really great news. Huge area of woodland and haven for wildlife has been lost. If you look at the strategy document the council have plans clear the woodland on the cemetery side of One Tree Hill and in other places. They are planning on clearing more trees in Camberwell Old cemetery.

Yes the Rec if safe for now but its future is not guaranteed.

Until the council stop their unsustainable, environment damaging policy of clearing woodland and parks to make way for gravestones it will never be safe.

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