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HOP Recreation Ground to Become a Cemetery?
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Sherwood


Posts: 1,361
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #121
21-09-2011 07:36 AM

I have worked in the burial cremation industry. It is accepted that London will run out of burial space. It seems peculiar for Southwark to try to put off the inevitable.

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PaperBagBadger


Posts: 24
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #122
21-09-2011 09:34 PM

There has been another thread running on this since Feb with links to the petition and the Friends of Honor Oak Rec blogspot! There has been quite a bit of press coverage ......

save honor oak recreation ground!

As Pico says, as many people as possible need to come to the last public event that Southwark Council are putting on this Sat 24th Sept 1 till 4pm to hear from they have to say and tell them what you think about this precious green space. We expect councillors from both boroughs to be there.
The meeting is on the Rec itself - an ironic touch

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #123
21-09-2011 09:48 PM

I'd still like to know where people are going to be laid to rest. It might be an idea to come up with some creative answers to that one don't you think if people really want a long term solution.? If you hide all the evidence of death and remembrance from people then they won't get a balanced experience of life. The dead are us and will be us. Many people find it uplifting to visit their deceased relatives . And Councils are not doing this for themselves for personal gain- providing burial space of some kind is actually in itself a community need yet overdramatically they are portrayed in much of this as land grabbing opportunists.

I've lived in the area a long time. My children have used the little playground around the rec but in general its a dump, eerie during the day ( because of the strange living people that frequent this area , not the quieter ones in the graveyard itself) and I do feel that its use as a community health/sports facility is really being overplayed here and largely stimulated by the fact that it might actually be used for something else. There are plenty of alternatives for childrens play space in this area ie the Horniman, the Triangle, Blythe Hill fields etc. I thought there were plans to retain part of this for a community sports facility in any case?

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #124
22-09-2011 08:52 AM

Roz the point is even if they do use the rec the problem of where to lay people to rest will still remain in the future.
70% of people now choose cremations over burials so why let them take well used land by the living for the few when they die just because it is the cheapest option.

It is important Roz you do not get blinded by the argument Southwark are putting forward. We should (and may I say are due to the Friends of Honor Oak Rec campaign) be telling Southwark to come up with another option and invest in the future.
The problem of burial space concerns the whole country not just us so why should we loose the rec for nothing!

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Zimmerman


Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #125
22-09-2011 11:46 AM

There might be a way in the future when they change the way we are disposed of, it will all depend on Costs, laughable as it was when the proposal of using a Cremetorium, was thought to be far too drastic, as the public had visions of seeing the actual cremation happen. Now it is a much used practice it is final and there is no cause feel guilty and to go to the cemetery to visit and lay flowers.

I predict that at a future date the situation will be solved by the Council supplying a BLACK WHEELIE BIN.
But there is always the drawback of the fortnightly collection. Confused

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WBD


Posts: 18
Joined: May 2010
Post: #126
22-09-2011 12:45 PM

In answer to Roz's question - in the Green Belt. It is one of the only land uses that is allowed in the Green Belt, land is cheaper and in much more plentiful supply. It is quite a common practice amongst certain religious communities in North London

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WBD


Posts: 18
Joined: May 2010
Post: #127
22-09-2011 03:56 PM

Again in response to Roz's email, if you visited the playing fields on a Saturday morning you will find that Hillyfielders Football Club use the area for training between 9am - 2pm, all year round. This caters for the age ranges of 5 - 16 and is operated as a community club where children of all abilities can come and play/train.

The tennis courts are normally well utilised aswell as the park for joggers and dog walkers.

Your suggestion that "its use as a community health/sports facility is really being overplayed" is ill-informed.

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #128
22-09-2011 04:06 PM

Yes but Zimmerman would we have to sort the body parts of our loved ones into recyling and non recyling and be fined if we mucked up! Wink

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #129
22-09-2011 04:19 PM

Sorry,never post on a forum stuck in traffic. I missed the C out of recycling and twice,please forgive me!

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Pico


Posts: 136
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #130
22-09-2011 04:41 PM

I use the tennis courts 3 times a week and we always have company or a little wait. There are always people walking dogs, going for jogs or simply enjoying the greenery.

It was great to see some of the youngsters having fun on Sunday playing football the other day.

I don't understand where the 'people who frequent the park are odd looking' comment comes from. It sounds a bit judgmental to me...

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theplanner


Posts: 14
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #131
22-09-2011 06:58 PM

Bromley Council have permitted an enormous cemetary in the Green Belt just off the A20 near Sidcup near Flamingo Park on land that was completely unused beforehand. This is exactly where burial should take place and most definitely not on parkland. Southwark are mucking around with irreplaceable parkland and need to be stopped!!

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Zimmerman


Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #132
22-09-2011 08:39 PM

It would be inconvenient for the Black Bin to stay on your path very long as unlike the others it would be six foot long by two foot wide and a foot high, there would have to be an emergency collection by the Waste Disposal Dept Lorry.
Not a very nice thought but I recall that the Local Refuse lorries did in fact take away my freind when injured in the bombing in the war. Addmittedly it had been converted to an Ambulance, but this could happen again.

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #133
23-09-2011 08:31 AM

Yes but Zimmerman what would happen if you conked at xmas,would you have to wait until new year and be picked up with the xmas tree?

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Perryman


Posts: 810
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #134
23-09-2011 09:40 AM

Have to I agree with Roz - I don't want to be burnt when I die.
Nor put down a hole. The is deadism, and I don't see why I should lose my rights just because I'm dead.

I want to (continue to) slowly mummify in front of the TV/computer.

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Tinkerbell


Posts: 358
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #135
23-09-2011 10:00 AM

Or perhaps we could start building vertical cemeteries, car-par style. The upper levels will command premium payment, because of their splendid views and fresh air. Then again, the concept isn't new...after all, there's a fairly steep hill on one side of the existing cemetery. Just sayin'...Scared

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Bumble


Posts: 57
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #136
23-09-2011 01:00 PM

Regarding the Green Belt land in Sidcup,this has been brought by Barry Albin who has a funeral business in Southwark.

He has offered part of the land to Southwark for burial but they say it is too far for Southwark residents to travel. However Barry Albin did not see this as a factor otherwise he would not had purchased the land so why do Southwark?

So everyone please do try and get to the meeting tomorrow at 1pm on the rec,we can not let them take our park when there are other options for burial available!!!

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Zimmerman


Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #137
23-09-2011 04:23 PM

There is of course the Conical Coffin. that is circular and upright with a pointed bottom and a thread running from bottom to top, the benefit of this is instead of lowering a normal coffin by the Bearers, it is possible for all the Mourners to participate by taking hold of the cross levers they can all screw clockwise the Coffin into the ground. This does become a great help in Exhumations they just unscrew anticlockwise the Coffin back up.

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PaperBagBadger


Posts: 24
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #138
23-09-2011 09:43 PM

Post from Nunhead Forum:
The final public consultation on the future of Honor Oak Rec and burials in the borough will be held at Honor Oak Rec
(by foot to Brenchley Gardens or P12 to Honor Oak Station).
From 1-4 pm.
I plan to be there,
Renata
Cllr Renata Hamvas
Labour Councillor For Peckham Rye Ward
02075255223
Renata.Hamvas@southwark.gov.uk

Good news! All the Peckham Rye councillors are rooting for the Rec to stay as an open green space for ALL!

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languagelounger


Posts: 28
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #139
25-09-2011 12:10 PM

Just wanted to share some of the real history of the site.

In 1955 the then local authority started carrying out burials on land at Honor Oak which had been in use for recreation since Victorian times. They did this without planning permission being granted for a change of use, so it was unlawful.

So London County Council and the Local Government Minister became involved and they came out very firmly in favour of the land being used for recreation. The local authority was told to come back with plans for leisure facilities. Only 2 acres was allowed for burials (at the area where burials had already been started without permission) and the Local Government Minister referred to the quality of the rest of the landscape and said that he did not want to see gravestones covering it.

What's more, even recently Southwark Council had no plans to use Honor Oak Rec at all. They did commission a very extensive report in the 1970s, which I was told by a colleague of the author,rejected trying to extend Camberwell New Cemetery and showed how the other, old cemeteries could be managed sustainably, long term, to provide burial space.

In 1990 they were due to continue using Camberwell Old Cemetery, where there was a large area designated and ready. And at that point, the committee of the Friends of Nunhead Cemetery started lobbying Southwark Council to use Honor Oak Rec instead. They didn't even have a remit to do this on behalf of their members. I have a letter from one of the active Friends of Nunhead members who was also a Rec user, who had discovered what was happening and wrote to the Friends of Nunhead ctte protesting at their behaviour. [/b] He explained to them how much the Rec was needed and used. Unfortunately this person didn't alert anyone else in the area, or there would no doubt have been a campaign of opposition at the time. It all proceeded behind the scenes.

I think it is important for people who support the Rec to be fully aware of all this, because Southwark Council continues to publish statements about the Rec to create the impression that they are someow tied to a "historical" plan to use it as a cemetery. It simply is not the case. The current situation started because of behind the scenes string-pulling and trading of influence that the general public knew nothing about. These are recent decisions, there is no ancient history obliging Southwark to destory the park, the current politicians are entirely responsible for what is being planned.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #140
26-09-2011 07:09 AM

There still needs to be some consideration as to whether we want our deceased to remain within our community or not - I refer to my earlier point about the problems in 'death' not being visible to the living- it also takes away a great deal of history. Death is a natural part of life. I also wonder what people in Sidcup have to say about increasing numbers of dead Londoners moving out their way- do they not also have aspirations for land in their communities? The dead don't vote and no one wants them around. Sheer deadism.

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Friends of Blythe Hill Fields