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Criminal punishment
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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #21
02-02-2011 01:52 PM

We've been here before http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php...9#pid28569

Brian,
Regarding the incident yesterday, you do not have all the facts (possibly none of them) so you should not be jumping to execution.

But more importantly, you have already been warned about this spelling error and I think you should be punished for this spelling crime. A suitable sentence is two hours in the stocks outside WH Smith. You must appear there at 6pm tomorrow evening so that everybody can throw rotten fruit at you. See you there!

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #22
02-02-2011 02:11 PM

Surely rotten dictionaries and Daily Mails would be more appropriate?

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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #23
02-02-2011 02:20 PM

IWereAbsolutelyFuming,
Quite right. Throw the book at him!

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #24
02-02-2011 02:42 PM

Well pointed out. Spelling never been my forte , but I am sure you do not need me to tell you that.
As for the incident I read the report on this blog. If it is incorrect I do indeed apologise.
If correct then it sounds horrific.
I never purchase the DM as often mentioned.

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #25
02-02-2011 02:48 PM

Surely criminal justice is 'an eye for an eye', at least to a certain extent. You deprive somebody of something, you're deprived of something yourself. [/align]

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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #26
02-02-2011 03:13 PM

Brian Wrote:
Spelling never been my forte , but I am sure you do not need me to tell you that.

It is high time you were taught a lesson so that you pay a bit more attention to the spelling you use. I think the two hours prescribed punishment will help with your rehabilitation.

As for calling the forum a 'blog', such a basic error in nomenclature of Web technologies must be punished by removal of Internet privileges for the remainder of the day.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #27
02-02-2011 03:27 PM

Perhaps, but the victim and the criminal are usually deprived of different things (one obvious exception being capital punishment for murder, which we now no longer have). In our system the criminal is typically deprived of money (fine) or freedom to live or travel to anywhere he or she wants (prison); the victim may have been deprived of any one of a whole range of things.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #28
02-02-2011 03:47 PM

Sorry Michael only went to Bog Standard Comprehensive ( Forest Hill ) and started work at 16.
I am guessing you went to University at the State's expense.
Most people I converse with agree with me that the criminal fraternity have it far easier than they should. Infact I am often surprised how much more right wing than me many of them are.
I can assure you my views are not unique.

May God be with all honest people.

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Cellar Door


Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #29
02-02-2011 03:57 PM

brian Wrote:
I can assure you my views are not unique.

Indeed.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #30
02-02-2011 04:18 PM

Quote:
May God be with all honest people.


Not with dishonest people as well, Brian? They may need him more, as I think I remember reading somewhere.

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michael


Posts: 3,224
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #31
02-02-2011 04:23 PM

Brian,
I also went to Forest Hill but really you can't use your upbringing as an excuse for every crime against spelling that you make (what would Mr Neal say). You want to use stocks and capital punishment to sort our society's woes, and I don't see why this regime of public humiliation should not extend to minor spelling mistakes. Surely you, and your even more right-wing friends, would find this appropriate so that we might finally have children and adults that can use the English language properly.

And just to make you happy I thought I should include a lovely story about a child rapist who has won the right to get chocolate bars in prison (not for his windows but to eat).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-gl...t-12345169

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Jane_D


Posts: 189
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #32
02-02-2011 04:35 PM

I haven't ever lived in a country where state-led violent punishments like floggings or executions were regularly performed in public, or televised. Does anyone else have direct experience of this? I imagine that regularly seeing offenders legally treated in this way might make violence seem more and more normal, and just lead to a feeling that any kind of offense justifies violent retribution. If keeping violence to a minimum is the aim, that doesn't sound helpful. I've been looking for a good report showing whether such countries do have a lower crime rate, but I haven't found anything yet.

BTW Brian, they don't save a lot of money in the US by executing offenders instead of handing out life sentences, because offenders tend to stay on Death Row for several decades, making appeals, beore the execution goes ahead.

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DerbyHillTop


Posts: 120
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #33
02-02-2011 09:55 PM

Jane D
interesting question.
I have direct experience of a country that has gone quite hard on terrorists and its own population even 40 years ago if not longer. Everyone acts as if they are guilty even though laws state innocence until convicted. Justice / punishments seem to be too harsh and it is accepted that an honest person can never be 100% good. (They may cross the road on red light, and thus breaking the law.) People have lost sense of proportionality and all is black or white and white in reality does not exist. This leads to acceptance of crime and violence as it just a level of justification required. It can start with crossing the road, to fare dodging on a bus, to stealing for food & cigarettes or from employer because they do not pay/treat one with respect. While stealing they may get unlucky and have to hurt someone not to go to prison for trying to provide for their family. And if unemployment is really high, and benefits don't exist who can blame them.


I've been here long enough not to see everything through rose tinted glasses and I appreciate this justice (and benefits) system. It is not perfect and has always faced political pressure to change to address Brian's and alike views. One such scheme I mentioned earlier 'Community PayBack Scheme' and the idea of trying to get offenders (obviously not guilty of lesser crimes where no custodial sentence was awarded) to do some work in the community had been sold as having positive outcomes in mind. Unfortunately my experience is that too many offenders were just seeing how little they can do. I didn't think this was effective rehabilitation or punishment, but a political farce of trying to justice on a budget.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...games.html

So my advice to all is: leave our justice system to Judges, CPS & Lawyers and fund it properly. It is a price for civilised society in which I'd like to continue living.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #34
03-02-2011 07:58 PM

I think the punishment should fit the criminal, as opposed to the crime.

Our two current standard punishments - deprivation of liberty (jail) and deprivation of money (fines) are water off a duck's back to some criminals are are not an effective deterrant to others. The wealthy can laugh off fines and the poor simply cannot pay them. Jail can often serve to turn a minor criminal into a major one. Yes, some people should be locked up to keep them away from the public, but in a lot of cases, it leads to a revolving door in-and-out effect.

If deprivation of dignity (a spell in the stocks, or doing mucky community service, or name-and-shame in the papers or whatever) is what would really make a particular crim think again about being a repeat offender, then so be it.

Unfortunately, the death penalty doesn't exactly allow for any reform / rehabilitation after punishment.Scared

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #35
03-02-2011 08:33 PM

Quote:
This is a terrble incident. Surely there will be no liberals do gooders out there
defending their HR.
In my opin ion sounds like attempted Murder and they should receive Capitol Punishment.
I do not see why we should pay to keep them in prison for years.


Come come, this is no place for name-calling.[/quote]

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Jane_D


Posts: 189
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #36
03-02-2011 09:27 PM

Thanks for responding to my question, DerbyHillTop. Very interesting. The necessity for people to steal just to stay alive also recalls the middle ages. Talk about a rock and a hard place.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #37
03-02-2011 11:53 PM

'shz1400' said:

Quote:
If deprivation of dignity (a spell in the stocks, or doing mucky community service, or name-and-shame in the papers or whatever) is what would really make a particular crim think again about being a repeat offender, then so be it.

But where is the evidence that it is?

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