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Railway pictures
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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #1
17-01-2011 03:45 PM

hi. i am new here is there a board that shows the local pictures of SE23 ?

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Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #2
17-01-2011 04:04 PM

I remember the bridge and service from CP to Nunhead. Not sure if I recall the tram.

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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #3
17-01-2011 04:38 PM

Lost Railway Stations of East Dulwich.

Lordship Lane Railway Station SE22 was at the bottom of Sydenham Hill, London Road, Lordship Lane, junction.
It could be got to from Lordship Lane up Lapse Wood Walk and through an archway under the railway track to the booking hall in the main building of the station, the high embankment that was built to allow the bridge to be built to cross the Lordship Lane.
This bridge had to be built to the rigid standards laid down by the Dulwich Estate Governor’s and never had any advertising on it.
It was possible to see from Horniman Gardens the trains passing from Lordship Lane Station to Langton Rise, we liked to look in through the small windows in the pubs side wall and see the horses, you could see the train going to Honour Oak Station from Wood Vale.

Honour Oak Railway Station SE22 was in Wood Vale corner of Forest Hill Road the entrance was from Wood Vale facing the
Cemetery, up steps next to a wooden building that was a Sweet Shop, there was a sizable Goods Yard that was used by Coal Merchant’s, and building materials, also the Funeral Directors used it to receive the deceased from inner London.

I wonder if Boris Karloff ever used the station, living within a few hundred yards.

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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #4
17-01-2011 04:48 PM

This is the Honour Oak Station in Wood Vale.

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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #5
17-01-2011 06:01 PM

Remembering Hornimans Museum.

Seated around the large mahogany dining table, our family of ten, waited for our cup of tea from the enormous brown enamel tea pot, that was nearly always brewing on the big iron kitchen range, our turn came eventually as you had to wait there was a pecking order, elders first, children by age. “Can I have more milk in mine please?”
Dad said “If you only knew the trouble to get that tea for us you would not dilute it so with milk”. “What do you mean Dad”. Dad was always ready to go into great lengths to explain anything that we put to him.
“ You are lucky to live just a few blocks from the Museum that was built by the man Frederick Horniman whose father John Horniman had made a fortune bringing Tea to England, in 1826, as he travelled to far off countries China and India to find tea growers he collected all kind of things brought them home to his house Surrey House in London Road Forrest Hill. As his collection grew he had in 1901 a Museum built to exhibit all those things some are very strange.”
I cant recall the date , but I think it was about 1938, we the three older boys, got on the tram outside our home, travelled the short distance along Lordship Lane to the Southern Railway bridge that spanned the road from here it was called London Road, (If you were in time you might see the Steam Engine pass overhead).
We now passed the Hornimans Gardens, these looked to us like a large park, The tram stopped outside the Horniman Museum, as we got off there was the tall Tower that had the entrance to the Halls and Balconied galleries. We passed through the Turnstile not having to pay to get in, there was displayed on the wall the history of the Tea Trade and the Horniman involvement, but we could see a Knight in shining armour on a black horse just inside, so tea now got forgotten about.
There was a Clock a very tall and wide one. On the hour it would chime and a door opened at one side and Twelve Apostles slowly passed to vanish through the door on the other side, as each Apostle passed it would turn to face the viewer, except Judos who turned his back. Just outside the back door was a stone seat made from a solid piece of Granite it looked like a armchair, we had heard stories that if you sat in it you could hear the drums of the Tribes, or you could ask for a wish for the future, one who sat there jumped up quickly and would not say why, so nobody else ventured a try.
We learned about all sorts of things, and saw things that made you wonder about where they had come from and those people, a woman from a native tribe had rings around her neck so that her neck stretched to a foot long.
Our stomach at long last dictated our return ride on the tram.
As we once again sat awaiting Tea, Dad said “What did you learn at the Museum?).
“Dad In 1875 they first packed tea in sealed paper packages to sell in Grocers shops, when it was brought by ship it was put into ply boxes lined with tin foil.” “So you enjoyed your visit to the Museum then?”
“ Try your tea with no milk, the way it should be.”
We did taste it but by the look on our faces reminded us of those Aborigines warriors faces in the Museum, so we all thought that adding milk is better for us as we are only young children.

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Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #6
17-01-2011 09:44 PM

Thanks for the pictures and the stories.
I went on the last train from Lordship Lane station to Crystal Palace High Level (steam train of course). An exciting event with everyone trying to remove souvenir bits of the station at Crystal Palace.

Don't forget that tea chests were originally lined with lead foil, not tin. That's before we knew about the toxicity of lead and used it everywhere; paint, water pipes, toy soldiers etc.

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Ian Bull

Posts: 59
Joined: Jan 2009
Post: #7
18-01-2011 03:32 AM

Hullo Zimmerman,

There's a good selection of photos of the Nunhead to Crystal Palace High Level line in the 'Town Museum and Gallery' section of 'Sydenham'.


I'm leading a walk along the route on 29th January and will post details next weekend.

All the best

Ian Bull

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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #8
18-01-2011 10:51 AM

Just a memory

Crystal Palace 1936

One of my first memories was when I was five years old, I was in my back garden, playing with my ten year old brother Ken, and my older brother , Bill who was twelve years old. A neighbour shouted over the garden wall, that a big fire had started, have a look.
  We lived in Dulwich near a very large park. The neighbour said the fire was the other side of the park. As there were houses between us and the park, we couldn’t see, so we went up to the fourth floor of our house to see, but all we could see was smoke.
My two brothers, with me in tow, ran through the streets to Dulwich Park. Across the fields, way up above the Dulwich Woods, on the hill, we could see the fire, smoke billowing high in the air, flames reflecting off the glass that covered the Crystal Palace.
We could see the two glass towers at each end , with the middle alight with dense smoke. As it was about three miles from where we were, my brothers said that they had better not take me with them to the fire, so we all returned home.
The fire burned through that night. The next day we asked our mother if we could go to see what the fire had done, and she agreed provided they kept me close to them. She gave us the money for our fare.
We caught the tram from the tram stop a few doors from our home, to Lordship Lane Railway Station, then a train to Crystal Palace High Level Station. When we got off I thought that the station was the Crystal Palace as it was so large with at least ten platforms and a glass covered roof.
We climbed up lots of stairs from the Station to the wide road above, across the road were the smouldering remains of the Crystal Palace!
There was much confusion , fire engines, hoses, ladders, black water everywhere, people and cars, rows of buses and trams. There was a terrible smell of rubber and horsehair, iron girders sticking up , glued together with the glass that had melted in the heat, then set as it cooled down. Just two high towers stood, something like lighthouses, but the glass had all gone. Between the two all had been burnt.
There had been an exhibition of all the goods that had been traded around the world all this and the wooden floor had been burnt, as was the new fire engine on show. This was the very latest, designed to give a great force of water, and was named, “The Princess of Wales”. Unfortunately, the only water available was on a water tower in the grounds, but this was soon used up. As the Crystal Palace was built at the top of Sydenham Hill, water could not be taken from the fire hydrants in the road , as the pressure was low.
Hoses were put into the lakes, in the grounds, where the models of prehistoric Animals, lay half submerged in the water, soon they were left high and dry, as the water pumps drained all the water, through the hoses to the fire, but this did not last long. We moved about the grounds , but could not get near the ruins, the heat was still very hot you could feel it as the wind blew over it in your direction, the smell was the worst, so we went home dirty, dusty, but happy to have seen it, we waited for the train, got the tram, wanting our tea, Mum said “change your clothes and wash first!”
This was my first memory of the Crystal Palace.
My next was in 1939 when the Army blew up the two towers, as the second world war had started, it was thought the Towers would be a landmark for German Aircraft.

By Zimmerman aged 5

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Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #9
18-01-2011 06:35 PM

You might also like to see Steve Grindlay's photostream on Flickr which has plenty of old photos from the area.

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Jon Lloyd

Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #10
18-01-2011 10:32 PM

I love those Steve Grindlay pics. The Swiss Cottage is interesting. Anyone know where on Stanstead Road it was? Seemingly nothing about it on the net. Maybe where Rickman's Pharmacy is now?

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Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
18-01-2011 10:34 PM

Swiss cottage was next to the fire station where there are flats now. Rickmans used to be Barclays Bank.

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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #12
18-01-2011 10:57 PM

    Swiss Cottage Junction of Westdale Road & Standstead Road.
Grindlay pics.

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Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #13
19-01-2011 12:15 AM

A Tram that was in use at the time of the fire of the Crystal Palace


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Posts: 133
Joined: May 2007
Post: #14
19-01-2011 11:31 AM

I recognise the Palace - but have never seen the tower before. Was it a water tower? If not, then what was it used for?

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Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #15
19-01-2011 12:07 PM

Water towers for the fountains I believe. An extract from[/quote]

Erected at a total cost Of £1,500,000, the Crystal. Palace was without doubt the most magnificent and costly building of its particular kind that has ever been built; the upkeep of it has cost as much as £60,000 a year. The main building, exclusive of wings and colonnades, was 1,850 feet long, and was composed of 9,642 tons of iron and twenty-five acres of,' glass. When the Crystal Palace was removed to Sydenham the central transept was made much higher, and the north and south transepts and the two towers were added. The towers were each 282. feet high, Or 77 feet higher than the Monument and 107 feet higher than Nelson's column in Trafalgar Square. When erected in 1856 these towers were considered a most extraordinary engineering feat, but the first attempt to construct them proved a failure and involved the company in a great loss. When all but completed they were found to be insecure, and would neither carry the weight intended for them nor sustain the vibratory shock of the ascending and descending water, and therefore they had to be pulled down again. The fountains used to rise to a height of two hundred feet, and surpassed those of Versailles.

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Post: #16
19-01-2011 12:13 PM

There was water in the tanks at the top of the towers.

Joseph Paxton was first and foremost a gardener, and his layout of gardens, fountains, terraces and cascades left no doubt as to his ability. One thing he did have a problem with was water supply. Such was his enthusiasm that thousands of gallons of water were needed in order to feed the myriad fountains and cascades which abounded in the Crystal Palace park. The two main jets were 250 feet (76 m) high.

Initially, water towers were constructed, but the weight of water in the raised tanks caused them to collapse. Isambard Kingdom Brunel was consulted and came up with the plans for two mighty water towers, one at the north and the other at the south end of the building. Each supported a tremendous load of water, which was gathered from three reservoirs, at either end of and in the middle of the park.

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Post: #17
19-01-2011 04:35 PM

A ride on the No 58 Tram.
The big red double Decker Trams passed our homes front door, these bulky things always rocking,
they threw the passengers about, even sitting on the red leather seats was something shocking.
I had asked my mum if I could have the fare for the ride, she gave it to me she said you are growing fine,
its time you got about a bit now, but be careful you are eight years old, and its nineteen thirty nine.

The Tram passed my house, my pal Bill lived just around the corner, the tram stopped on the hill,
we had decided we would ride down to the Street Market in East Lane, I got on and so did Bill.
The Tram descended down the hill, stopping and jolting the facing seat passengers forward,
A tired young mother waiting there trying to fold the pushchair but it was so awkward.

The Conductor got off and folded it down flat, then put it in the parcel place underneath the stair,
she carried a baby in her arms and the two younger children, all sat together mum said we can share.
The young woman, who looked worn out with the children’s constant attention and needs,
She asked the Conductor one single and two halves to Kings College Hospital please.

The Conductor took the six pence coin, selected and punched a hole in each ticket,
handed them to her folded along with the six pence back secretly tucked within it.
She looked at him, about to say that you had made a mistake, but he gave a wink,
the elderly woman sitting facing smiled, so she also understood how we think.

Her husband Reg. was in the army she never remembered his battalion or where he went,
but when on leave she always knew when he said “get up them stairs” what Regi meant.
I was obvious why this young mother was once again requiring the services of Kings,
if you asked her of her thoughts on this she would just say its one of those things.

The tram stops at Goose Green, a man operates the lever to direct the tram to its destination,
shown on the front along with the stopping places shown on the side board information.
In the middle of the road a horse drinks from the trough, just a while relieved of it load,
the rails divide to Peckham Rye, or those Trams that terminate here in Spurling Road.

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Post: #18
19-01-2011 04:43 PM


The new Odeon Cinema, all clean and bright, for me many an hour in times to come,
we will line up and wait our turn in the queue, I’ll go with my mates not with my mum.
The bridge over the road at the station is so narrow, trams wait till it is clear,
the Dog Kennel Hill is so very steep, that many on this tram worry should we fear.

Dog Kennel Hill is the only place that there are four sets of lines, for safety sake,
two sets up and two sets down, while one tram used one, the next tram another would take.
The early full tram load of passengers mostly big burly men, with pockets of sandwiches.
carrying bags, or tins of lunch, wearing donkey coats and patched working breeches.

The tram would grunt and slowly move uphill gripping rails, getting electricity from that centre groove,
a smell of burning as the motors strained, we hold our breath and wonder, would our guess prove.
The tram stops sharply its blown it electric fuse, the conductor runs to the rear driver s cabin brake,
as the tram goes backward down the hill, his additional help to the driver all the difference make.

The tram stops just before the bend, passengers glad they had not hit the arch, the driver replaces the fuse,
the tram once again tries to climb the hill, some of the passengers had not felt safe so refused to use.
They walk to the top and await their transport where they climb on again, lighter it had reached the top,
behind time now the driver races down the hill, takes the bend so fast we wonder oh will it stop.

Kings Collage Hospital “were here luv”, the Conductor gets the pushchair and unfolds it in on the path,
she goes off two kids in tow, one in the pushchair, one on the way, she don't seem worried you got to laugh.
Here we go we are on our way, an other big Odeon Cinema, and The Golden Domes, and New Grand Hall
The Camberwell Palace Theatre so grand and so big, as time passes when we will go to visit them all.

Camberwell Green is so congested the trams line up in the middle of the road, a shelter stands here to wait,
some trams go left and some go straight on the lever man must know his job, if he sends one wrong we’re late.
On now down the Walworth Road, past the Regal Cinema and the Canal, the tram rocks and sways,
here on the left is the Gallaway’s cough mixture factory, they claim “clears you cough in a few days”.

East Street the conductor calls out, I wonder why they call it that, we always call it East Lane well I never,
hot chestnuts the vendor shouts, and then a stall selling Brussels sprouts, Sarsaparilla “Hot sarsaparilla”.
A man dressed in Indian costume all feathers and beads, shouts “I gotta horse” But I cant see it, anywhere,
we bought the old comics that we had come for, we had better go home, pleased we had not spent our fare.

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Jon Lloyd

Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #19
19-01-2011 06:06 PM

It took me a while to realise this all rhymes. Quite a feat! It's nice to read.

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Posts: 81
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #20
30-01-2011 10:43 AM

Honour Oak Station looking from Wood Vale, the new Tewkesbury Estate in background roads were starting to be built on.
The steam trains were longer than those used later.
This steam engine is heading for Crystal Palace High level station.
It is disputed that Steam trains did run after electrification the third rail or the electric one can clearly be seen.
That prooves the point.

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