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Extend 63 bus route to HOP station
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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #1
16-01-2011 12:37 PM

This is one of the topics to be discussed at the next meeting of the Crofton Park Transport Users Group.
Tuesday 18th January, 7.30 pm at Ackroyd Centre, Ackroyd Road SE23
(just round the corner from the Babur Restaurant).
Use the side door at the Brockley Rise end of the building.

A campaigning group from the Peckham area want to have the 63 bus route extended to Honor Oak Park station and are coming along to get support for this public transport link.

All users of local buses and trains are welcome, even if you don't live in the Crofton Park ward.
The CPTUG was set up and is funded by the local Crofton Park Assembly.
Website: http://www.cptug.org

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #2
16-01-2011 02:08 PM

Good Luck but over last 30 years or so emphasis has been on reducing routes not extending

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alisa


Posts: 84
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #3
16-01-2011 03:47 PM

I'm afraid I can't make it, but very good luck. Utterly ridiculous that the bus to 'Honor Oak' doesn't actually make it that far.


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sandy


Posts: 189
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #4
16-01-2011 04:52 PM

Honor Oak was the name of the station that was on the old Crystal Palace line and it was very near to where the bus stops by the cemetery, as opposed to Honor Oak Park.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #5
16-01-2011 05:08 PM

Well said Sandy.
Buses based on geography of Victorian Times.

If it says Honor Oak why does this anyway imply the station. Perhaps the area or road.

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Triangle


Posts: 133
Joined: May 2007
Post: #6
17-01-2011 10:41 AM

Yes, Honor Oak station was just along Wood Vale.

I can appreciate why Peckham folk would like it extended, but where would it turn to go back? There's not a lot of space at Honor Oak Park Station to turn and traffic levels can be horrendous. It can be a real bottleneck in the evenings.

Perhaps it could continue down to Stondon Park, around one way system and back up? But that seems excessive.

Where does the single decker bus go that already stops at the station?

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Brockley_Babe


Posts: 57
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #7
17-01-2011 11:54 AM

the P12 goes straight over the traffic lights, round Brockley Rise and back up Honor Oak Park - the 63 could do the same easily - there is room for a double decker as the 172 does this.

I can't make the meeting unfortunately but support the proposal

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #8
17-01-2011 11:55 AM

There is a bus terminus point in Brockley Rise for the 172. The bus drivers even have toilets that they can use with a pincode nearby. It is not big but that means that a bus can turn round by using Blockley rise then the mini roundabout then turn back in Honor Oak Park at the lights.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.44750...04801&z=18

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #9
17-01-2011 11:56 AM

See Brockley Babe and I have had the same idea Smile

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gingernuts


Posts: 505
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #10
17-01-2011 12:13 PM

Going to Brockley Rise will increase the turnaround times of the 63 making them less frequent. It also begs the question why anyone who wants to go to Honor Oak Station doesnt just wait for a P12 or P4 which is only a 2 - 5 min walk away.

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #11
17-01-2011 12:55 PM

Because the 63 goes to Elephant and Castle which is a much more direct route than trying to get on a P4 or P12 when you want to try to reach the other side of the river.

During the snow for example when the trains to London Bridge and the Overground were not working, my easier alternative was to get on a 172 or 171 to try to reach zone 1. The 63 would have cut the detour to New Cross and probably saved 25/30min of that Journey.

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gingernuts


Posts: 505
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #12
17-01-2011 12:57 PM

During the snow, you'd have been lucky to get 63's to come as far the Forest Hill Tavern let alone over the hill to Honor Oak!!!

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #13
17-01-2011 01:05 PM

Just to explain further, I believe that it is more the people on top of the Hill and just over the Hill towards Honor Oak Park station that are pushing for the change in order to have another direct commuting route into Central London. When I lived that way I used to walk to get the 63 from Dunoon Road to the Cemetery, for people with limited mobility it is a long walk.

Extending to Brockley Rise would be an extra mile, so a loop of two miles. Would that really make the buses less frequent?

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #14
17-01-2011 01:07 PM

Ok forget the snow, then signal failure that prevents both trains and overground...

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dbboy


Posts: 201
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #15
17-01-2011 03:04 PM

I can see no logical reason to extend the 63 to either Honor Oak Park station or Brockley Rise. Honor Oak Park would not be able to cope with the increased traffic particularly during the rush hour period when traffic backs up in both directions.

Both the P12 and P4 can be used for these journeys. This topic was extensively discussed last year and duly died a death just like the idea deserves.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #16
17-01-2011 03:06 PM

Yes I am sure you are flogging a dead horse here.

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rbmartin


Posts: 798
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #17
17-01-2011 08:42 PM

The Brockley Rise terminus would have to lose a route to accommodate the 63 as there's no space to terminate the double deckers on Honor Oak Park.

However Forest Hill Road should have a bus route that links it with HOP station as they have no direct bus service to Forest Hill either.

(Unless you fancy walking up the steep hill)

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #18
17-01-2011 10:05 PM

I've got no problem with extending the daytime 63 route... although improving frequency and regulating the service was the reason given for cutting off the last mile or so to Crystal Palace and making that the 363.

What I do wonder about is how the night bus service would run? Would it run the current N63 route to Crystal Palace... or would it run the 'new' route? If it's the latter, then I'd oppose any extension since I, perhaps selfishly, quite like that N63 option.

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rbmartin


Posts: 798
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #19
17-01-2011 10:27 PM

It'd make sense to keep the N63 as it is. Brockley Rise is served by the N171 and a short walk to HOP from there.

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #20
18-01-2011 03:05 PM

When the idea of extending the 63 to Brockley Rise was put to TfL last, it was rejected on the grounds of cost and the problem turning the buses round at Brockely Rise. I seem to remember 1/2m per annum being mentioned.

If we accept that it will take a minimum of 20 minutes for a bus to make the journey to Brockley Rise and back from the present terminus, with a 5 minute service, they would need at least 4 extra buses on the route. I guess each bus needs at least 3 drivers to cover the shifts, plus holidays etc so perhaps 12-15 more drivers. It's easy to see how the route extension could cost at least 1/2m per annum. They would get a few more fares - but given how empty the 63 currently is by the time it reaches the terminus, probably not enough to seriously dent the cost.

In order to maintain a regular 5 minute service they would need to have 2 or 3 buses at Brockley Rise at any one time (there are typically 1-2 buses holding at Forest Hill Tavern). They don't have enough room for the present services to terminate at Brockley Rise, so its not difficult to see why this is a problem. Jammed traffic between the present terminus and Brockley Rise, especially during the peak hours, clearly makes this issue worse.

TfL probably need to do a major review of bus services in the area - and having more through services connecting to the Overground may well be a sensible objective. However, I don't see an extension to the 63 happening any time soon.

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