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Does Work Pay?
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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #21
14-01-2011 10:40 AM

Derbyhilltop - have you considered looking for less expensive nurseries (I know many have really long waiting lists - I put my sons name down when he was 3 mths in the womb and only got a place when he was 17mths). There are some slightly less expensive ones out there. £1000 plus per child sounds really high. I realise these may not be convenient to your home but may be on a commute route.

Full time
Seedlings, SE23: 0-2 years - 884; 2-3 yrs - 793; 3-5 yrs £758
Tiny Acorns, SE4: 0-2 yrs: 845 (not sure of the rest)
Hillyfields Day Nursery, SE4: 0-2 years - 887; 2-3 yrs - 728; 3-5 yrs £539

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #22
25-01-2011 01:01 PM

There was a lady fruit farmer in the paper last week who cannot get British youngsters to pick the fruit so workforce 98% foreign.
I know fruit farming does not apply to SE23 . But surely if you refuse work , for which you are fit to do , you should have benefits stopped.
I would imagine most other countries have these rules.

On TV yesterday Spain gives ZERO benefit if you have never worked and paid into their Nat Insurance.

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DerbyHillTop


Posts: 120
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #23
25-01-2011 03:23 PM

Brian,
are you suggesting that toddlers should pick fruit together with parents so that they can earn money?

And should one be forced to work if childcare costs would be higher than earnings? Should one also lose every benefit in that case?

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #24
25-01-2011 03:56 PM

Of course I am not suggesting that Toddlers work. This applies to people of the legal working age. Also did point out that Fruit Farming not really available to people from this area but useed as an example where people are refusing jobs and getting benefit.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #25
25-01-2011 06:28 PM

Brian,

I'd like to see actual real life examples of people refusing jobs and not losing benefit as from my own experience, it would have been extremely difficult to do that. I take it you can provide actual evidence of your statements? And I don';t mean quotations from the Sun.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #26
26-01-2011 11:51 AM

Dear Roz
I read newspapers , not comics. Would not be seen dead with The Sun. Although did like the original broadsheet sun in the late 60's or 70's after the demise of The Daily Herald.
I do recall in Panorama about 12 months ago youngsters going into snooker halls etc in Wisbeach and Peterboro saying picking fruit to much like hard work and they prefered to just collect benefit.

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #27
26-01-2011 01:38 PM

It may have only been one documentary but I also recall the Panorama investigation when people were stopped outside of the benefits office and asked if they would like a job which paid above minimum wage and said yes and then declined as soon as they knew that it was picking veg. Said it was to much hard work. Or job seekers being given a chance to work in processing plants but either did not show up or quit after one day. Mind you there may have been other issues (health/ mental etc) that did not come across in the tv program (or were purposely edited out).

Not saying that living on benefits is fun but there is definately a population of people who prefer to do this than work.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #28
26-01-2011 02:03 PM

The whole discussion of the 'lazy unemployed' is hardly relevant to the topic of 'How does anyone with more than one child of pre-school age afford to work full time?'

If work doesn't pay then it is not surprising that people choose to stay at home to look after their children rather than being part of the larger economy. But one should not confuse this with a small number of people refusing to do a honest day's work - not all of whom are retired.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #29
26-01-2011 02:50 PM
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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #30
26-01-2011 03:08 PM

Yeah, cos that thread was really about 'Direct ELL trains to Highbury'!

But Brian's latest intervention appeared to be telling DerbyHillTop to stop worrying about childcare and start picking fruit (in London in January).

Couldn't we just have a separate thread just for Brian and Hawkesrah or must I rely on the other threads already created?

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #31
26-01-2011 03:14 PM

I'd recommend taking Brian's comments with a pinch of salt but we need it for Taymount Rise if tomorrow's forecast snow arrives.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #32
26-01-2011 03:23 PM

very humerous Michael. Uou would make a good politician ( maybe you are one ).
I actually said the opposite of your quote. But who worries in politics about misquotes.
My comment was that it did not apply to SE23 but to agricultural areas , but why not invent something. Labour Party excelent at that.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #33
26-01-2011 03:38 PM

Fine Brian,which part of your post was relevant to DerbyHillTop's childcare worries, or any part of the discussion about nursery provision that was happening until 10 days ago, before you brought the thread up again?

IWereAbsolutelyFuming,
I've got some bags of salt ready, but I think we are going to need Lewisham's whole supply if we are going to deal with snow on Taymount Rise and Brian's bitterness.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #34
26-01-2011 05:07 PM

The longer a thread runs, the further it gets from the original topic. As a general rule, if a thread title looks interesting I'll read the first two page max, then stop, safe in the knowledge that most of the subsequent posts will add little if nothing to the subject. Threads meander, it happens

However, people who regular 'hijack' threads - quickly taking the focus away from the original query or topic onto a very tangentially related topic (or one not related at all) should know that it is considered very bad form in the world of the interwebs.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #35
26-01-2011 06:17 PM

Quote:
However, people who regular 'hijack' threads [...] should know that it is considered very bad form in the world of the interwebs

.

Dr Dunlop is always going on about this; she was very sharp with me on another thread when I was (allegedly) guilty of this faux pas. Perhaps she could advise where oiks like me can educate themselves about what is and is not good form in 'the world of the interwebs'?

In defence of 'hijacking':

1. it's fun

2. it's not really hijacking anyway, because facetious etc interventions can always be ignored by those who want forum discussions to be conducted with the rigor of an academic seminar

3. if the worst comes to the worst, 'admin' can always transfer the offending posts to a new thread, where bad boys can continue to have their fun.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #36
26-01-2011 07:22 PM

I thought 'rigor' looked wrong. I checked, and it's 'rigour.' Sorry.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #37
26-01-2011 07:34 PM

I think you'll find 'rigor' is the American spelling.

As to your defence of hijacking - I'm glad you find it fun to query the way people write as opposed to addressing the content of what they write (which was the thrust of my complaint on the other thread you mentioned). It's not my idea of fun, but each to their own.

I shall not be responding again as I am clearly breaking my own rules of rigorous adherence to the original topic (insert smiley of your choice, depending on whether or not you think I am to be taken entirely seriously).

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NewForester


Posts: 379
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #38
26-01-2011 08:12 PM

Is this thread now about etiquette? Wink

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #39
26-01-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:
I think you'll find 'rigor' is the American spelling.


Oh right, good, thanks for that.

I too shall now shut up. People will no doubt want to go back to the last serious posting, which seems to have been Michael's of 2.03 pm today.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #40
26-01-2011 09:52 PM

There is however a medical term called 'rigor' usually applied to children having fit like episodes at high temperatures as a way of cooling down the body.

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