There is simply not enough nursery provision in the area. Therefore it is rather expensive.

With needing childcare in order to work, a HUGE amount of the wage goes onto it. The new government is reducing already token help working people had towards the childcare costs, and thus forcing people to give up work to look after their children. The effect is the worst in London because wages and costs are higher here, but we are considered to have 'broader shoulders' and help / penalties applied (for being 40% taxpayer) without taking into account that wages are at premium because of premium housing and other costs.

I dare ask what was the point of my education if I have to give up working once I have children. I was always amazed by number of families were only one parent was working and I wrongly assumed this choice was sacrifice of lost income in order to spend time with their children. I now see that lots of families' second income is often unaffordable.

If children are growing up where one parent is not working, they may be inclined to shy away from hard work once they grow up. Certainly if the family is struggling they may decide it is better to struggle on benefits than struggle while working. Hence not really helping parents to work has far reaching consequences for the society. I base this assumption by trying to understand why so many young people are not interested in 'fruit picking'.

As it turns out my hourly charge rate is quite considerably above the minimum wage, and I have worked out that working 1 possibly 2 days a week I will be as much well of as working full time. If I work more than this, childcare, tarave costs and tax take far to great proportion of the extra money earned. I consider myself lucky that I can make living on one day’s work. This living tough is on rather reduced scale I was accustomed before I had children. I HATE the system that does not allow me to be better off by working more.

The solution seems to be that it is in society's interest the childcare should be fully funded when both parents are in work. That way parents contribute by paying tax (rather than being on benefits), positive attitude towards work is developed so that phrase IT DOESN'T PAY TO WORK is not applicable to anyone.

Then there will be just a minor point of having enough work for all that want it. Come to think of it, it is far easier to blame 'work shy' for all the ills in the society.

Not helped by residents trying to close down the few nurseries that do exist.

I'd be interested to know whether 'Derbyhilltop' has any evidence for believing this to be true or whether it's just speculation. My mother stopped paid work for good after I and my brother were born, and I'm a workaholic!

I'd have to agree with Robin there. I gave up paid employment 13 years ago to stay at home with the kids because my job didn't pay enough to make it viable for me to go back to work (plus ca change). The work I do looking after my family plus the freelance work I manage to fit in around that means I rarely sit down before 9pm at night - and my kids see that. If anything, they witness hard work in their own home every day, and might consider going out to work an easier option!

Which nurseries are people trying to close down?

I second the comments about childcare. We currently get tax credits which pay for half of our £15k annual childcare bill ( and thats for three children two days a week and includes sibling discount and subsidised nursery place for a 3 year old. which goes some way towards things but its not enough and anyway its not likely to run into next year. To put it into context, my tax saving from childcare vouchers offered by HMG is around £1k which is only about 3 weeks childcare. It sounds generous but it isnt really. My teacher partner could get them but his employer being a Tory run council puts so many barriers in the way to doing so that its impossible to get access to what should be a universal tax saving benefit. We are keeping people in work by going to work ourselves even though it costs us more than we earn to do so and also by keeping nurseries open and profitable.

I earn a decent wage yet most of it goes on nursery fees. The only reason for us both working is to have an insurance policy for the long term when all our kids go to school and we can both hopefully go back full time. Its also important to keep NI and pensions topped up and careers on track during this period.

So like a lot of people, as I see it, we are subsidising our employers.

I've never really done an analysis of other countries childcare costs but it is undoubtedly extremely expensive here. Clearly if people are paying all this money into nurseries and childminders. My beef has always been that the early years curriculum is a great idea however parents end up paying through the nose for a private education for their children from an early age. This is what its about really and I do think that if that is the case, then it needs to form part of the formal education system and subsidised by the state accordingly. As far as I am aware, there are few childminders out there getting rich quick, so a lot of these fees paid seem to go on running costs, training, insurance and meeting Ofsted requirements. I know of so many childminders giving up due to the pressures.

I meant to say that if people are paying all this money into childcare then its not going on other things which could help the economy more, or enable them to save more for a rainy day, or to borrow for mortgages or essential household improvements. There needs to be much more fuss made about the deprivations faced by ordinary families in the extremely expensive early years of childhood and the need for substantially more financial support, probably of a creative and innovative nature.

Roz totally agree hence my way of raising the subject.

No I do not. I will be stopping work soon and I hope my children will still gain good work ethics. My family is not alone yet I can IMAGINE that there are parents who do not cope as well with this kind of stress.

I did say MAY and I did state this is MY ASSUMPTION. If you have any insight into why 'work shy' can't seem to move their behind I am very interested to hear it. And just being lazy is not an answer I would consider an insight.


rshdunlop - Don't you find it unfair that you had to give up your job to look after the children? You said your job didn't pay enough to go back to regular (as opposed to freelance) work. That is the real issue.

If we can't earn enough to support our families are we being exploited by modern way of life?

To be absolutely honest, it didn't seem unfair, just the compromise we has to make. Life is full of compromise and difficult choices. Staying at home has it's drawbacks, but so does having both parents work. It was clear before we had kids that this was the only way that would work for us.

It's not the same, of course, when you have committed to the child care route and then you find the costs soaring.

Now that's an interesting question, 'DerbyHillTop.' I guess the answer partly depends in how you define 'enough to support our families'. And how can one be 'exploited' by a 'way of life'? Surely one can choose (to some extent anyway) one's way of life - although I admit there are very powerful pressures pushing people in particular directions.

Apologies for the typos and errors in my last post - posting via my iPhone while waiting at the school gates!

Even if your net take home is negative after childcare costs, I've got to say, yes work does pay.

One, in sanity - heartily sick after one year's maternity leave of seeing only other new mums, with the same old broken record on what goes in one end and comes out the other and the trouble it causes in between. What a blessed relief to hand over the little darlings to be someone else's problem for the day and seek adult conversation and a bit of mental stimulation. You'll find you're far more pleased to see them when you collect in the evening.

Two, also good for the children to get a mix of carers - one day they will have to go to school on their own. Get 'em used to the routine of separation young and they will be cool on the first day and won't embarrass you in playground.

Three, unless you plan to remain out of the employment market indefinitely, an extended career break isn't generally good for your promotion prospects/earnings potential and you could find that your industry has moved on, leaving you behind, so in terms of lifetime earnings, paying for childcare could earn dividends further down the line.

Oh, and if you're used to paying extortionate nursery fees, private school fees don't come as such a shock to the system! (brace for impact..)

A slightly more positive outcome of taking an extended career break for childcare is that you can think seriously about what you really want to do when you do go back to work if what you were doing previously wasn't your ideal career.

My nursery fees just went up by £100 per month! Boo! Ouch!

Have you not got an elderly relative or friend who would be happy to look after little Jeremy / Griselda.
I am sure that is what use to happen.

My friends work, either full or part time. My relatives are overseas. My husbands relatives live outside of London, and are working as well, with their own families and childcare arrangments to worry about.

So NO. The dea that there could be this pool of people just lounging around waiting to look after children for free or very little (other than in an organised way thru nurseries etc) who do not have to earn enough to live, does not exist, and I doubt it really ever did.

Plus not everyone who is old/ or not working necessarily wants to look after kids (would prefer gardening, going on holiday, hanging out with friends etc) or they may not be physically/mentally capable of looking after young children.

I would like to know when this "used to happen" - pretty sure my husbands mother used some sort of paid childcare in the 70s when she returned to work.

When was this golden age?

mljay,

I am sure Brian was offering his help in a roundabout way.

It did happen in 50's and 60's mainly because people lived close to their relations.
They still do in many parts of The UK , but I agree less so in areas like SE23 , which is mainly a transit, society.
I have lived my whole life at most 1 mile from my birthplace in Sydenham. I know of many others like me of that generation.

I did not intend to cause you any offence and apologise if I have.

Brian - sorry, did not mean to jump back at you.

The fact is that it does still happen today where people live close to relatives or with relatives. I know examples where childcare is split between nursery and grandparents. But I suppose you do need to be close enough, and have willing grandparents/relatives (lets not assume that just because they are retired, they have nothing better to do than raise their grandchildren - and why should they).

I suppose it is also the case that families are now a lot smaller as people tended to have less children, so the extended families/ relatives that used to be available to help, also does not exist, even if you stay living in the same place.

Were you offering to take up childcare as derbyhilltop suggested?
;-)

I don't think most childcare was carried out by extended family in the 50s and 60s. The rate of employment amongst women was significantly lower in those times, as was the rate of lone parents. Mothers stayed at home to do the domestic chores and look after the children.

Times have changed and society now expects/requires women to be out working as much as possible to provide additional income to provide a better quality of life for all the family.

My sympathy goes to all you parents of young children. I am a grandmother, did work from the time my child was a few months old through necessity, but I had a wonderful mother living around the corner. What an old fashioned concept that seems today.

I had no idea that the cost of child care was this high in UK.

What a dilemma to be in. I can see both sides of the discussion - to stay home and be not much worse off that if you worked OR keep working to hold onto your job and benefits that go with it.

It is a serious question that the social planners should address as a matter of urgency.