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Direct ELL trains to Highbury & Islington
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eastofthetrack


Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #21
20-01-2011 09:52 AM

"Crystal Palace weren't even in London when they were founded in 1924." Michael! Michael! Michael! Scared

CPFC were founded in 1905, and have played in South Norwood (Selhurst Park) since 1924 after relocating from Crystal Palace itself. I'm sure you know they were formed by workers at the site of the Crystyal Palace once it moved down to the SE.

Oh, and Arsenal fans call themselves "Gooners" because they can't pronounce "Gunner".

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #22
20-01-2011 09:58 AM

My understanding of the boundaries is that South Norwood and Selhurst Park were not part of London County prior to 1965. Therefore, Crystal Palace were not a London team when they were founded.
Forest Hill was part of London and we have the boundary markers (between the boroughs of Camberwell and Lewisham, I think) to prove it.

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eastofthetrack


Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #23
20-01-2011 10:06 AM

Was Crystal Palace within the London borders on 10 September 1905? As I'm sure that you're aware that the team played at the 'Crystal Palace ground', on which the Athletics stadium now exists prior to their move.

Indeed, people tend to forget that a long time before Wembley, the FA Cup Final was staged at Crystal Palace. (Stattos will also be quick to point out that the CP ground also hosted England's first Rugby Union international, against the Kiwis).

Touché! Thumbup

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #24
20-01-2011 11:18 AM

Wikipedia Wrote:
The street address of the Crystal Palace was Sydenham S.E (SE26 after 1917), but the actual building and parklands were in Penge. At the time of relocation most of the buildings were in Croydon, as were the majority of grounds. In 1899, the county boundary was moved, transferring the entire site to Penge Urban District in Kent. The site is now within the Crystal Palace Ward of the London Borough of Bromley.


So 1905 Crystal Palace ground was over the border in Kent.

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eastofthetrack


Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #25
20-01-2011 11:29 AM

London's finest...since 1917 then!

Thanks Michael...but I'm still not supporting Arsenal! Thumbsup

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #26
20-01-2011 11:41 AM

The SE26 postcode does not make it part of London (just like the Isle of Skye is not part of Inverness). Only in 1963 London Government Act was Penge Urban District included in London.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #27
20-01-2011 05:22 PM

Quite correct however up until the 1880's Forest Hill in Kent as you will see from the grave stones in Christchurch. I think we must not be to pedantic here.
The Glaziers are the local team .

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152047
No Longer Registered

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #28
21-01-2011 09:44 AM

Isn't there some suggestion that Crystal Palace might be moving back to the Park? If so that would make it a very short trip from FH on the Overground and perhaps the town centre might get a bit of extra business and atmosphere on match days which would probably be a good thing.

If you are travelling in the other direction to watch Arsenal I always believed that the word "Gooners" was a derogatory term that Spurs fans started using for describing Arsenal fans back in the seventies. Arsenal fans then adopted the word to describe themselves just as Spurs fans have adopted a word that was used to describe them by Arsenal fans.

The word used by Arsenal fans to describe Spurs fans was clearly racist but the use of the word Gooners may also be connected to Arsenal's black players and so could also be racist in origin. Football chants tend to be created in a spontaneous and hooliganistic manner which makes it difficult to come up with a definitive answer as to their origin many years later.

The moral of the story is that people get very tribal about where they live and what football team they support. They are not always able to discuss the issue in the measured tones of the contributors to this forum.

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #29
21-01-2011 10:39 AM

In a slight change of track...I noticed that new boards have gone up at the station showing Highbury & Islington at the end of the line.

It is about time Islingtonites were able to get somewhere nice, finally they will be connected to the wonders of Forest Hill!

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rbmartin


Posts: 810
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #30
21-01-2011 10:08 PM

Quote:
In a slight change of track...I noticed that new boards have gone up at the station showing Highbury & Islington at the end of the line


I saw the new boards with Canonbury and H&I just past the gateline on Monday. Have they also gone up on Platform 1 by the footbridge?

Incidentally the expected opening date of the extension has been moved to the 17th February after a 'stakeholders' trip at lunchtime.

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Brockley Nick


Posts: 10
Joined: May 2007
Post: #31
22-02-2011 01:38 PM

Thought you guys might like to know that the trains start on Monday, as promised!

Here's the article.

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rbmartin


Posts: 810
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #32
22-02-2011 01:50 PM

The NRE Journey Planner had the first trains to H&I from Sunday when I checked yesterday.

However if Monday is the launch day, I'll be on one of the last Dalston Junction only services.

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Contrary Mary


Posts: 124
Joined: Oct 2008
Post: #33
23-02-2011 10:02 AM

@ dipsolala:

From the Topspurs website's analysis of Arsenal's history:
"1913: INVASION OF NORTH LONDON. Henry Norris was a west London estate agent who dreamed of challenging the dominance of Northern and midlands clubs in the English League early in the last century. Norris, who later became mayor of Fulham, a Conservative member of parliament and earned a knighthood as well as a lifetime ban from soccer, believed that if he merged ailing Woolwich Arsenal of south London with Fulham in west London his dream of a London super-club could take shape. But the League blocked his proposals, so he cut his ties with Fulham, gambled all on Arsenal and moved them across the River Thames and north to the wide-open spaces of Highbury. The only trouble with this plan was that the new stadium was close to the established homes of Tottenham three miles north and Clapton Orient, two miles east. Despite Spurs and Orient's protests, the League was powerless to prevent the move.... "

@152047:

Some theories on the origin of Gooner. Please note the one you stated which does not crop up.

From http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/i...17420.html

See posts from "Goonerette" to "james osiris"

From "Herd" on the Onlinegooner.com forum:

"We have our friends from Tottenham to thanks for ther word Gooner.
They hated bieng called y**s and were struggling to come up with a name.
Eventually they came up with the word Gooner but bieng silly boys they let on to one of their mates ,Lee ,who on hearing the word replied " thats a great name cheers from now on I wish to be known as Lee Gooner".
He then spread the word and at the next game at the (abusive term for White Hart Lane) beofre they got a chance they heard us all chanting gooners gooners gooners !"

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dipsolala


Posts: 69
Joined: May 2008
Post: #34
24-02-2011 01:08 AM

Thank you ContraryMary.

Seems Norris' gamble paid off, but maybe more so for his successors.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C.

"Arsenal Football Club started out as Dial Square in 1886 by workers at the Royal Arsenal in Woolwich, south-east London, and was renamed Royal Arsenal shortly afterwards.[3] The club was renamed again to Woolwich Arsenal after becoming a limited company in 1893.[4] The club became the first southern member of the Football League in 1893, starting out in the Second Division, and won promotion to the First Division in 1904. The club's relative geographic isolation resulted in lower attendances than those of other clubs, which led to the club becoming mired in financial problems and effectively bankrupt by 1910, when they were taken over by businessmen Henry Norris and William Hall.[5] Norris sought to move the club elsewhere, and in 1913, soon after relegation back to the Second Division, Arsenal moved to the new Arsenal Stadium in Highbury, North London; they dropped "Woolwich" from their name the following year.[6] Arsenal only finished in fifth place in 1919, but were nevertheless elected to rejoin the First Division at the expense of local rivals Tottenham Hotspur, by reportedly dubious means."

Linguistically, Gooners is obviously, IMHO, a corruption of gunners and used for chanting (and quite likely stems from chanting) as it's a corruption and also sounds slightly insulting.

As the full Overground line opens on Monday, north London football club supporters from Forest Hill will find it immensley easier to get to their desired ground.

Peace and love

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junegapi


Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #35
24-02-2011 10:30 AM

Will we ever be able to take the OverGround to Imperial Wharf or West Brompton, without a long change at Clapham Junction? Without an over- or under-pass probably never. So the route to Stamford Bridge and Craven Cottage will still be by car or Victoria Line and District Line. By the way, as far as the FA Cup is concerned, the Old Etonians have won the Cup Final, playing at the Oval, more times than most Premiership teams have. But their last victory was over the Royal Engineers in the year dot.

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rbmartin


Posts: 810
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #36
24-02-2011 11:18 AM

Unlikely as our East London Line trains don't have the hook to take the electrical current on the overhead power lines that are used on most of the North London Line.

The newer Southern trains have this hook as they're used on services up to Milton Keynes.

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movingsouth


Posts: 35
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #37
24-02-2011 11:48 AM

Good and Baaad news at the same time for me
Good cause my property is up there
Bad cause I want to move down south
Oh well must not be greedy
just really concerned I may not be able to make the transition as painful as I though, for once as things have been very tight for a long time

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movingsouth


Posts: 35
Joined: Feb 2011
Post: #38
24-02-2011 11:50 AM

obviously as painLESS Blush

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #39
25-02-2011 07:05 PM

Quote:
Will we ever be able to take the OverGround to Imperial Wharf or West Brompton, without a long change at Clapham Junction?Without an over- or under-pass probably never. So the route to Stamford Bridge and Craven Cottage will still be by car or Victoria Line and District Line.


If you take the victoria train at 5 past the hour, you can change to a Milton Keynes train on the next platform with a wait of just over 5 minutes.

But I recommend staying on it to Shepherds Bush. Its the fastest way to get to Loftus Road.

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junegapi


Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #40
25-02-2011 08:06 PM

Thank you for the tip. The interchange is as good or better as anywhere on the ELL. It's a long walk at Dalston Junction to Dalston Kingsway, although that may be cancelled by the interchange at Highbury? Is it? One can wait a long time at Willesden Junction for a Clapham train. But one can watch Virgins thundering or creeping into and out of Euston. There's an Underground line near by, on the surface and there's a goods only line to watch. If you get really bored, look at the Wembley Arech.

The next time Stamford Bridge or Craven Cottage play against Loftus Road, I'll use your suggested route. And visit that monstrosity called Westside to buy my flags and Half-Time sweets, etc.

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