I've only recently come across the use of the word as a free-standing adjective, applied to places which are tightly packed with people ('the train was rammed this evening'), rather than as a participle applied to things that have been rammed in. My 2007 CD-Rom version of the OED doesn't seem to recognize what I maintain is a quite recent development in usage; it gives the meaning 'forced in, beaten hard etc.' and all the examples it quotes are of the word being applied to things such as earth ('The roots do not penetrate through the rammed chalk'), bullets (rammed into gun barrels) etc.

I wouldn't claim it's universal, but my impression is that it's becoming more common, certainly in more formal contexts.

This post was last modified: 16-03-2014 04:57 PM by robin orton.

BBC concert announcers used to say, 'And here is tonight's soloist, Joe Bloggs'. Now it's always, 'Will you please welcome tonight's soloist...'

I don't like being told in this bossy way to 'welcome' people. It's up to me whether I choose to applaud them or not.

Another transatlantic import, I suspect.

BBC concerts aside, I've attended a lot of conferences and I've chaired a lot of conferences and I have to say, any chairman who doesn't get the audience to show their appreciation as a presenter is coming on stage isn't doing their job properly.

I think it's embarrassing and soul-destroying to be at an event where all you can hear is the speaker's footsteps across the stage as they head towards the podium. So "Please welcome..." is, in my view, just plain good manners.

"Give it up for...!" on the other hand,...!

.
Fair enough, although when I have spoken at conferences I don't think I've expected to be applauded before I've actually said anything!

If I were chairing a conference, I'd be inclined to say, 'May I introduce....' and leave it to the audience to decide whether to clap or not.

But perhaps I'm just being perverse and stuffy. Has been known.

I might be twisting the statistics but people remember 7% of what they hear (or is it that 7% of what they remember is what they heard?).

Anyway - point being, if you are a conference organiser, you want everyone to leave with a great impression of what a terrific conference it was and what a great time they had there - and if five or six people start clapping but the other 126 don't then there's a 'cringe factor' that kills the feel-good factor stone dead.

Sorry. I think I've taken this thread about as off-piste as you can go - so: Now back to your regularly scheduled programme.....

I suspect this reflects a change in the role of BBC presenters, not a change of language. They used to be passive commentators but are now active participants in the event, hence the change from passive description of the arrival of the soloist to active introduction and encouragement of the audience.
It feels odd to the listner in this context because its not usual to have spoken introductions at classical concerts.

You may be right, Steve. It's probably an aspect of contemporary 'chat culture', from which Radio 3 is no longer immune. I personally find it quite irritating -as soon as the 'chat' starts, I tend to switch over to Classic FM - but obviously the BBC thinks it will attract listeners overall.

I'm having problems with 'sanction', used as a verb. It used to mean to authorize or countenance, but it's currently being used to mean almost the opposite, 'to apply sanctions to', i.e. not to countenance.

I've come across this most commonly recently in the context of people being 'sanctioned' by having their job seekers' allowance take away on the grounds that they are not job-seeking sufficiently energetically. But I also read something like this in the press (quoting from memory - I didn't make a note at the time);

'Some American priests who have been arguing for the ordination of women have been sanctioned by their ecclesiastical superiors.'

Great, I thought, in my innocence. The ecclesiastical authorities were letting the priests get away with expressing such radical thoughts! Then I read it again, and realised what it really meant. Felt quite disappointed.

My edition of the OED recognizes the new use, but quotes some authority as saying that it is 'of doubtful acceptability at present.'

This post was last modified: 21-04-2014 04:10 PM by robin orton.

It reminds me of the Road Traffic Act 1968 (if I recall correctly) which says, "The word 'loading' also means 'unloading'."

And perhaps section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978:

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master—that's all."

Just wondering if the language mavens on this thread have noticed "Beltway" referring to - I assume - the M25. Here it is, with the authority of the BBC

Expectans semper te expectabo

And Kernow Bys Vyken! to your good wife!

No, but I notice that 'maven' (from Yiddish via New York, first recorded use in English 1965) has become a favo(u)rite word of the young, hip and aspiringly transatlantic such as Tim.

I doubt whether 'Beltway' here refers specifically to the M25 (or indeed to the North or South Circulars.) I'd have thought 'far from the Beltway' is just a young, hip and aspiringly transatlantic alternative to 'far from the Westminster village' or 'far from central London.'

If you mean mine, Tim, she is indeed, as you know, Cornish and proud of it - her late father was a Bard of the Cornish Gorsedh. The nearest she came to divorcing me (in the early years of our marriage) was when I entered her nationality as English in a hotel register.

Perhaps we need separate threads for 'usage of Cornish' and 'usage of Latin.'

This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 03:46 PM by robin orton.

I have the feeling that using Yiddish loan words was quite fashionable in the 1970s (a measure of my aspirational youth) - I remember school friends showing off using various it for obscenities - and I had a maths teacher who recommend Leo Rosten's "The Joy of Yiddish", and I'd still recommend it to anyone. I can't remember what they are now, but on reading it, I discovered that some words I'd learned from my Mum - who grew up in Romford / Dagenham - were Yiddish, but it's because they felt so assimilated to me now that I can't remember now what they are. Apart from that, I sometimes use 'chutzpah', 'shlep' and 'shtik', as well as 'maven', and when I do, it's a bit self-consciously. But of these four, 'maven' feels the most thoroughly adopted, although still distinctively American.

I was once described by a work colleague as a shnorrer, which I had to look up in Leo Rosten. Apparently I should have stood my round in some City wine bar, so I took it as something of which to be perversely proud.

But Emily Maitlis using Beltway here seems quite bizarre to me.

This post was last modified: 24-04-2014 05:20 PM by Tim Lund.

The 'beltway' is the orbital road around Washington DC. Inside the beltway is where all the political decisions are taken. Politicians are accused of not caring what happens 'outside the beltway'. 'Outside the beltway' is a common political phrase in US journalism and the equivalent here is 'outside the Westminster village', It's not hip, or young, the phrase has been around for decades, just not this side of the pond.

Indeed. Sorry, I was assuming we all knew that already.

I was using 'young, hip and aspiringly transatlantic' in a rather loose sense, to mean something like, 'likely to irritate those sad old men who lose no opportunity of boring everyone with their pointless protests against the "cultural cringe" which they claim to see reflected in what they characterize as the casual and unchallenged Americanisation not just of our language but of so many other aspects of our culture (e.g. politics).'

Where's my tin helmet? I think I'm going to need it...

I hope not. I think that both rshdunlop and I fancy ourselves as language 'mavens' (there, I've said it) and we have spats from time to time on this and similar threads from time to time. Although we may both occasionally express ourselves forcefully, I believe that we do not generally transgress the boundaries of friendly banter and gentle satire. I hope I have not done so in this case.

Robin's right, we totes chill, man.

Although I though mavens were female. I am, but I'd always assumed Robin was an English Robin (male) and not an American Robin (female).