English Usage
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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11-08-2012 04:53 PM
Not sure I follow you here, lacb. Isn't the normal modern English pronunciation of Perseus PER -syooss? if so, the last syllable does rhyme with Zeus (Zyooss). Are you saying that most people nowadays say 'PER- si-uss' or 'Per-SEE -uss'? I've never heard either - not that that proves anything!
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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11-08-2012 06:23 PM
I spoke too soon. I've checked with my wife and sister-in-law - they both think it's 'PER- si-uss'.
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lacb
Posts: 627
Joined: Mar 2005
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12-08-2012 01:50 PM
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear.
My understanding is that the linguistically "correct" way to say Perseus is with 2 syllables rhyming with Zeus. Same ending. However, my point was very few recognise this and will argue for 3 syllables as though it was Latin. It doesn't really matter.
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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12-08-2012 02:08 PM
It doesn't really matter.
I fear you may be right, lacb.
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jgdoherty
Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
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27-09-2012 10:08 AM
An interesting BBC piece on British English use creeping into the US language:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19670686
and to save time a link from that piece to this blog:
http://britishisms.wordpress.com/
Not sure whether the blogger is entirely for or against what he calls Britishisms.
It makes a light read.
And isn't the world becoming smaller.
Did I see an item over the weekend saying HMQ language and accent now has an Estuary English lean to it?
This post was last modified: 27-09-2012 10:09 AM by jgdoherty.
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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27-09-2012 10:59 AM
I found the blog absolutely fascinating. It taught me a lot I didn't know about differences between US and British English. For example, I'd no idea that to use 'clever' of, for example, a bright child was a Britishism (US 'smart' or 'intelligent') or that Americans don't use 'ginger' to describe auburn hair. I'd also no idea that Americans often adopt Britishisms - I'd always asssumed the traffic was one way in the opposite direction.
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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29-09-2012 03:58 PM
'He's in pieces' or 'he's in bits', meaning that he's distressed or distraught. An increasingly common expression? I expect it is a development of 'to go to pieces', but I think 'being in pieces' rather than 'going to pieces' is quite new. It's certainly not in my edition of the Oxford English Dictionary. Anyone know where it's come from or why it's become popular? American? 'East Enders'?
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rshdunlop
Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
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29-09-2012 04:27 PM
I'm not sure of the origins, but being 'in bits' or 'in pieces' implies (to me) the end result of 'going to pieces'. It's a more prolonged affair. You 'go to pieces' and end up 'in pieces'. I think it has developed to give extra emphasis or weight to the condition, so it's more emphatic.
This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 04:27 PM by rshdunlop.
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jgdoherty
Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
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29-09-2012 08:02 PM
Sorry - cannot resist this:
Wasn't Bits n Pieces a Dave Clarke Five hit in the sixties ?
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jgdoherty
Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
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29-09-2012 08:32 PM
Yup - corrected to its proper title "Bits and Pieces", YouTube has the 1964 ToTP appearance here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoRLIJJSG4o
Seems so similar to "Glad All over" - but then this is not a history of British Music or BritPop.
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rshdunlop
Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
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29-09-2012 08:32 PM
You should have resisted, even if it meant sitting on Needles and Pins (The Searchers).
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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29-09-2012 09:38 PM
Wasn't Bits n Pieces a Dave Clarke Five hit in the sixties ?
You're quite right - I hadn't realised until listening to it again this evening (for the first time for forty-six years) that the words are 'I'M IN pieces, bits and pieces'.
But I still think the expression is enjoying a new vogue after all these years.
Needles and Pins, Concrete and Clay - those were the days.
This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 09:40 PM by robin orton.
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jgdoherty
Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
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17-10-2012 07:15 AM
Further examples from the BBC on Britishisms in the US and Canada.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19929249
Rather interestingly it includes the word "numpty" (I am uncertain of a correct spelling as I had only ever heard it used orally and not written).
I formerly thought the word had uniquely Scottish roots as I did not hear it used in conversation in London until some four or five years after my arrival here. It has become really popular in the last ten or so years and it still sounds a little funny to hear it pronounced with an English accent.
Spoken with a Scottish accent and with varying tones it can be used in a range of meanings from the good-natured rebuke to the absolute direst insult when prefixed with an anglo-saxon colloquialism.
This post was last modified: 17-10-2012 07:16 AM by jgdoherty.
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michael
Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
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17-10-2012 08:51 AM
I like the idea that we exported the term 'muppet' to America. Surely one of the most American of all children's entertainment (other than the Swedish chef). It is a great insult which should be used more often.
I think we should issue a very British 'Sorry' for giving them Chavs and Innit. But at least they know what a queue is, or at least the ones who have flown into Heathrow will know (much better than being 'in line').
In a previous job my US colleagues found is amusing that the UK version of the web site said 'Sorry' when no results were found, 'what are you sorry about?' Us Brits were of course proud of the fact that we were always polite to the user, even when they can't spell. We also would not let the US design team call the tabs at the top of the page 'flaps'. Eventually somebody had to explain why the immature Brits could not accept this terminology.
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lacb
Posts: 627
Joined: Mar 2005
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17-10-2012 01:28 PM
I think we should issue a very British 'Sorry' for giving them Chavs and Innit
Though I don't like the sound of innit either, so agree with the sentiment, I think it is interesting to note that it is linguistically identical in usage to French n'est-ce pas. Even the same number of syllables.
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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17-10-2012 04:33 PM
I do not think we need apologize for 'chav.' It is a very interesting word in that it shows that Romany ('chavo' = 'unmarried Romany man') can still influence English slang, as it has been doing for centuries. Cf 'bloke', which may come from Romany (and Hindi) 'loke' = 'man'.
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Perryman
Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
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18-10-2012 11:11 AM
How's 'dunnit' doing?
As in 'It makes ******* sense, dunnit?'
Or 'Ain't it'? (pronounced 'annit').
As in 'It's the ******* truth, ain't it?'
Have both these forms been dropped in favour of 'innit'?
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robin orton
Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
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18-10-2012 11:32 AM
My sense is that there is a definite move in that direction. 'Innit?' is taking over the all-purpose role whicn 'n'est ce pas?' has in French and 'nicht wahr?' has in German.
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rshdunlop
Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
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18-10-2012 12:22 PM
Except that, in my limited experience, people don't say 'innit' as much as popular culture would have us believe. And I speak as a parent of children at a state secondary school in Streatham.
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Perryman
Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
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18-10-2012 02:50 PM
So are you meant to reply 'Yes' or 'No' in agreement,
if you are asked '....., innit'?
Perhaps you are meant to say 'innit' back, whether you agree or not.
Innit.
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