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How Lewisham prioritise gritting
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Posts: 69
Joined: Aug 2009
Post: #1
09-12-2010 08:41 PM

I attach an EMail from Lewisham Council which explains how they prioritise gritting & salting although they are not the only organisation involved

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.doc File  Gritting.doc (Size: 32 KB / Downloads: 767)
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Posts: 822
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #2
10-12-2010 05:02 PM

This is done using pre-determined agreed primary and secondary gritting routes.
These routes cover all the main roads (except the carriageways and footways of Red Routes ... gritted by Transport for London), shopping centres, roads with steep gradients and bus routes.

Footways are not routinely treated.
However the Council treats footways for gritting according to a priority system, including those in major town centres and local shopping centres, footways close to heavily used areas, such as schools, railway stations, hospitals and medical centres, footways designated as "safe route to school" and other locations with specific access problems. Our footway gritting operatives do sometimes leave piles of grit on the footway for their own future use.

Fine, but in practice we know this is not the procedures they follow.
Rightfully or wrongfully steep gradient roads were closed.
Bus routes were redirected.
Footpaths near schools were left icy and as a result most schools were shut for most of last week.

I thought they responded far better this year, but then switched their manpower back to sweeping far too soon when main footways were still dangerous.

As for leaving piles of grit for their own use, why not store these in yellow hoppers at the corners of roads, and people can always go get a shovelful or two to make the routes passable.

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Posts: 285
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #3
10-12-2010 08:29 PM

So they prioritise the roads with steep gradients which seems sensible even if not followed... but there's no mention of footpaths with steep gradients...

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Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #4
17-12-2010 06:33 PM

Lewisham's full winter plan can be found by clicking on 'Winter Service Plan' in the right hand column here. (I can't work out how to link directly to the pdf document.) It's astonishing that untrained people risking their backs by doing their own gritting from Council salt bins is considered a bigger risk than people falling over and breaking their backs on untreated surfaces - but that's the crazy world we seem to be living in! Also that the Council's legal advisers are still warning that if people clear pavements they could possibly be risking being held responsible if people fall on it.

The Governments advice an clearing snow now seems to be pretty sensible - see here. If everyone cleared the pavement outside their own house, getting around in the snow would be much easier.

Roads 'on the hill' do seem to have been treated prior to today's snow but at a pretty mean spreading rate which only covered a narrow strip up the middle of most of the roads. I hope their will be a lot more salt spread if tomorrow's forecast heavy dump arrives.

I note that Southwark do have salt bins around - In a short walk today I noticed one at the junction of Wood Vale and Forest Hill Road and another by the no 63 terminus stop. Perhaps they use different legal advisers?

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Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #5
17-12-2010 06:34 PM

Shame on me. 'their' in my 3rd paragraph should be 'there'!

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Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #6
18-12-2010 08:31 AM

Avoid top end of Dunoon Road!

Following a pipe leak (assume this is also why temp traffic lights also on FH Road) water running along gutter spread out over the whole road at the junction and froze solid - complete ice rink!

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Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #7
18-12-2010 01:32 PM

I would really recommend over the shoe crampons- I've been walking very easily on the icy patches yesterday resulting from compressed snow which is just as well having young children to ferry about. There is a link on the snowfall thread to a website offering them for 6.99- much cheaper than Finches assuming they had any left anyway.

I still think we need all to take personal responsibility for getting ourselves around as well as relying on the council and need appropriate footwear. It might be good to check out Southwarks legal advice and to forward to Lewisham?

I would still like to hear from local councillors about the local winter plan. Alex has been forthcoming but little from Philip and nothing at all from Anne on the subject, nor any subject it would appear.

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robin orton

Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #8
18-12-2010 04:25 PM

I hadn't found the 'winter service plan' before - thanks, Andrew.

I see (p.7.) Sydenham and FH west of the railway line is designated as an 'exceptional salting route' which 'can be specified if the weather forecast is marginal.' (Why only then?)

Also that 'If the Council receives a complaint from the public about roads that they consider require regular salting, those roads will be added to a register of such roads included in the Lessons Learned Log. The roads on this register will be considered for inclusion within a Primary or Secondary Salting Route when the routes are periodically reviewed.' I made such a complaint about Round Hill and Radlet Avenue and I am pleased to say that (as a result?) both roads were effectively gritted on Thursday night.

I agree that what is said about salt bins on p. 10 is patronizing and over-protective in an elfnsafetygornmad sort of way. (But nothing here so far as I can see about the dangers of vandals throwing salt into people's front gardens, which I thought was the main objection to having open access bins.)

Under 'action by residents' on p.12, isn't the implication that the more positive Government guidance now available trumps the rather more cautious LBL advice on the question of the risks of legal action if you clear your own pavement frontage?

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Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #9
18-12-2010 04:43 PM

It's stopped snowing - get out and clear the snow from outside your property now before it freezes. Then sprinkle some table or dishwasher salt where you have cleared. Then put on your crampons for tackling those areas no one has been able or willing to clear. SE23, pick up your shovels!

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