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Youth Behaviour
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Johnc


Posts: 138
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #1
23-01-2008 09:37 AM

Okay here's a topic for debate. What can we do to improve the behaviour of the youth of se23. Assuming of course it needs improving. Not what's wrong with them but what can WE do to constructively move things forward?

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #2
23-01-2008 10:14 AM

I can't say I've ever found them particularly badly behaved. I can count on one hand the number of incidents of bad behaviour I've seen in as many years.

I'm not around the area or on the bus at school closing time, in which case I might have a different view - but I do remember how we were at the same age, in one of the area's less delinquent high schools.

So I don't really go in too much for the 'o tempora...' stuff.

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #3
23-01-2008 12:48 PM

Johnc Wrote:
What can we do to improve the behaviour of the youth of se23.


Which particular one?

More seriously, lumping all youth together as a problem is just sterotyping and very unfair. Are there any particular groups or type of behaviour you have in mind?

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grahamw


Posts: 58
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #4
23-01-2008 01:18 PM

Re SE23 'yoof', I have to say that I have never had ANY problems, or seen anything bad... I had to ask a large group to move off the cycle path near horniman yesterday so I could get past on my bike, and they were all really polite and even apologised!! was really refreshing after cycling through Peckham..

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Johnc


Posts: 138
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #5
23-01-2008 01:26 PM

None at all, just thinking of how to ensure they come out of adolescence with a reasonably balanced view of the world. Not looking to solve the problems of society.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #6
23-01-2008 04:57 PM

It probably would help if they had something to do.
I think the playing fields have been sold and the youth clubs have been closed.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #7
24-01-2008 11:30 AM

Sherwood Wrote:
It probably would help if they had something to do.
I think the playing fields have been sold and the youth clubs have been closed.


Isn't there a youth club near the station - Platform 1? And also something in the road behind the Railway Telegraph pub? Not sure what these offer, but isn't it the casewhen you offer things like this, the "yoof" who cause the trouble are those least likely to take it up or even disrupt the youth club.

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bigbadwolf


Posts: 100
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #8
24-01-2008 01:14 PM

We get these misguided lads on site through labour agencies and the one thing they've lacked throughout their lives is any real resposibility and male direction/discipline. The foremen have noticed that once they're given a more dangerous task that involves dangerous machinery i.e an air hammer or angle grinder, and working in a team they become aware that they're responsible for someone else's safety/life. This sense of responsibility then leads too a sense of purpose, thus they feel more valued. The change in personality is soon visible because they start turning up on time and working in a proactive manner and come for a pint or two with people they probably wouldn't have socialized with before working on large construction/demolition sites. So what I'm trying to say is that hard work under predominatly male supervision often straightens them out along with encouragement and praise for a job well done and a fierce tongue lashing for laziness and stupidity. But I have little knowledge on the female 'youths' so it would be great to hear some feedback

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vipes


Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #9
24-01-2008 02:06 PM

[Moved from 'SE23 Topics > Train Attack in November' -admin]

Hmmmm. Put up the wanted posters. Get them banged up and put to rights. Maybe. Maybe Eventually if they can squeeze them into Feltham. Err then what. Oh yeah, assuming they don't kill themselves then released. Then 8 out of 10 reoffend.

These boys are violent and scary because they're so emotionally numbed from chronic abuse. Righteous anger from people who have a less barren emotional worlds is inevitable because they trample on our right to be free from violence. But they're feral. They live in separate worlds but among us in B and Bs and unsupervised hostels. They weren't born criminals and can be diverted. We need them arrested but we need more places like Kids Company to send them. http://kidsco.org.uk/

But they're going out of business because no one will fund them http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/s...03,00.html

Probably because they're little "****s" and little "*****s" don't tend to inspire sympathy like kids with cancer.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #10
24-01-2008 02:25 PM

That's mainly because kids with cancer tend to show less interest in punching me in the head or stealing my phone.

You can't claim they all 'suffer chronic abuse'. Some do, but that doesn't account for the sociopathy of a whole class. Don't portray them as victims.

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vipes


Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #11
24-01-2008 02:52 PM

Re. the sympathy issue. Not sure you've understood my point but you've lent it some weight. For which thanks.

Re sociopathy. I'd be interested to know what you think accounts for it.

Maybe rap music?

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #12
24-01-2008 03:09 PM

I think it's a bit simplistic to blame rap music, but that is one facet of an ugly, thuggish culture. It is possibly as much symptom as cause.

In my opinion much of it stems directly from deep personal inadequacy and a distorted sense of self-esteem (or just self), where the only recognition or gratification they receive is from the fear of others.

For the underlying causes of this, you would have to look deeper and I'm sure there is any number of papers or theses on the matter.

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Jon Lloyd


Posts: 151
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #13
24-01-2008 03:51 PM

Some people, like certain cabinet ministers, try to make themselves feel better by using underhand financial means. Some people try to make themselves feel better by punching people in the face. I haven't got sympathy for either group. They're all motivated by selfish greed, which is in all of us, but some of us choose to realise that unless we try to get on with each other, there's no peace for anyone.

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vipes


Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #14
24-01-2008 04:12 PM

I was being facetious by suggesting rap music hilltopgeneral.

The papers and theses on the matter are in broad agreement that abuse and neglect underlie most later emotional and behavioural difficulties. I should know as I'ver reviewed them for my work.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #15
24-01-2008 04:38 PM

I imagined you were but it is hard to determine from bald prose. It would have been unwise of me to have assumed so and responded accordingly if it had been a sincere (if naive) statement on your part.

Equally I think a dose of cynicism may be required in your reading of the various papers on the subject, and the tendency to adopt an essentially benevolent view of deviant behaviours that has the effect of absolving the individual of responsibility is also rather glib, and panders dangerously to the culture of victimhood that they so willingly embrace. Many of those drawn into this sort of lifestyle come from loving families and have mothers who are ignorant of their son's ugly proclivities. There are very strong cultural influences at play, which we often choose to find it expedient to ignore.

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Jane


Posts: 52
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #16
24-01-2008 05:50 PM

I'm afraid it's not just boys. I was loudly abused in Sainsbury's Forest Hill a few weeks ago by a young woman. You may recall the shop has pillars dividing some of the aisles towards the back and I was between a pillar and a shelf looking for something. A woman with a buggy asked me to move which I did willingly and then another young woman asked me to move. I asked her if she couldn't go round me and she said "No you stupid fat cow" (although there was plenty of room for her to go the other side of the pillar). I was taken aback and moved away but then came back (by which time she was just standing speaking on her mobile) and said she should mind her manners. "What do you mean - I said excuse me" she replied.
Still my youngest put it in perspective: "You may be fat but you're certainly not stupid Mum."

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gingernuts


Posts: 505
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #17
24-01-2008 06:42 PM

hilltopgeneral Wrote:
In my opinion much of it stems directly from deep personal inadequacy and a distorted sense of self-esteem (or just self), where the only recognition or gratification they receive is from the fear of others.

For the underlying causes of this, you would have to look deeper and I'm sure there is any number of papers or theses on the matter.


Ok fatherless kids and gang culture have a lot to do with the obvious problems. But you will never solve the problem if you believe in socialworker babble. Kids carry knives and guns becasue they no longer get stopped, searched and banged up for a very long time (I mean real punishment) if caught. There are no-go areas because police stations no longer exist, police no longer want to do anything that is slightly dangerous, and because so called modern planners have developed hideous, dark, car free spaces for kids to loiter in (fortunately I'm not talking about Forest Hill/HOP here!). No one wants to pay for extra staff on trains, buses and stations anymore - we all want our services to be as cheap as possible, so the chances of getting caught and punished are slim. If you misbehave at school (if you even bother to go to school), it doesnt matter cos the govt wont let you starve if you dont get a job and you cant speak proper init anyway. Tax payers money for all. Get pregnant and the state will look after you. Get pregnant and create another fatherless kid for the cycle to continue. That's how deep you have to look.

On a more realistic note, the govt should not be selling off school play grounds, there should be more competitive sport, encouraged in schools and clubs. F Hill swimming pools should be opened as as a matter of priority. No more free bus rides allowed, which makes kids fat and lazy. etc

Phew - I think I should stop....

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gingernuts


Posts: 505
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #18
24-01-2008 06:47 PM

Jane Wrote:
A woman with a buggy asked me to move which I did willingly and then another young woman asked me to move. I asked her if she couldn't go round me and she said "No you stupid fat cow" (although there was plenty of room for her to go the other side of the pillar).


What a nasty piece of work. Best to take the moral high ground and ignore people like that. Unfortunately you can come across that sort of behaviuor almost anywhere these days.

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bigbadwolf


Posts: 100
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #19
25-01-2008 12:36 PM

Any 'youths' on this forum that want to contribute.

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lillam


Posts: 129
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #20
26-01-2008 02:07 PM

There was an eruption of gang warfare at en event at the Rockbourne youth club a year back or so, but it was all about kids from other areas coming for a ruck.

I think, to some extent, these things come in cultural/identity cycles - it was before my time, but think back to the fights between the mods+rockers. Imagine if hooded youths went for fights on the seafront today! The DAily Mail would have a heart attack, and encourage all its readers to move out immediately!

Factors that contribute to bad behaviour of kids today are:
-Confised identity
-Breakdown of family
-Imported US stupidity
-Poverty
-MAterialistic culture, post-Thatcher, no such thing as society, etc.

SE23 youth aren't too bad at all - thats because, as we all know, SE23 is an oasis of peace and goodwill in London!

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