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New primary school for Lewisham?
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thenutfield


Posts: 235
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #21
09-12-2010 09:36 PM

that is depressing fhmum. But surely the answer must be to stay, support the school, persuade like-minded people to send their children there etc etc. If you simply take your children elsewhere, then those 2 parents at the meeting become one, then none......

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fhmum


Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #22
09-12-2010 09:38 PM

Take a look at Ofsted reports for Lewisham. There are already numerous tiers of quality operating in the borough.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #23
09-12-2010 09:41 PM

We already have at least a three tier system at primary; private, faith, popular schools with good ofsted reports, and the rest of the state sector.

We are fortunate to have some excellent primaries in Forest Hill with excellent ofsted reports. But that leads to the situation where people are moving house to deliberately find themselves in the catchment area of certain primaries. At the same time all of the local primaries have had bulge classes in the last couple of years and this is simply unsustainable for many more years.

I would welcome the LEA taking action to properly address this shortage of primary school places, and not by simply adding more temporary classrooms to existing schools. But if the LEA will not address this problem then it is up to parents to explore alternatives. It is no good pretending that a structural problem does not exist, which seems to be more or less the attitude of the LEA.

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fhmum


Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #24
09-12-2010 09:48 PM

It is depressing, you're right, but I have a full-time job and two pre-school children to care for. If I'm to spend time trying to influence the way my children are educated I need it to yield results. I don't have the time to take on the level of apathy and dismissiveness that I witnessed among parents during a brief period at a regular state primary. I wish I did because the children at that school deserve a great deal more than they're getting.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #25
13-12-2010 03:07 PM

We are actually very lucky in SE23 to have some good and outstanding primary schools in the local area.

The report on which primary school provision is based can be read at http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/...rFeb09.pdf

The conclusion for primary provision is:

Quote:
The LB Lewisham’s PSfC, using a different set of assumptions, works to 2017 and predicts a shortage of 3,325 primary school places, which amounts to a 15% deficit. The agreed PSfC identifies a strategy and capital programme for addressing this predicted shortfall by a combination of building new schools [Michael: one in the far north of Lewisham] and refurbishing and expanding existing schools in a number of locations across the borough.


More recently Steve Bullock has been quoted as saying:

Quote:
Sir Steve warned: "The situation in Lewisham is very serious and will continue to be so until we get additional government funding to provide more primary places.

"We have opened 18 additional classes on time so that every child due to start reception this year has a place. This was only achieved through the hard work and commitment of Lewisham headteachers and governors.

"The birth rate in Lewisham is now around 4,800 a year and if 80 per cent of these children apply for a place in a Lewisham school, we will have 3,840 applications for 3,156 places each year. This is an unacceptable situation.


Unfortunately, even with additional funding provided by central government, no sites have been earmarked for new schools in Lewisham, other than the one in Convoy's Wharf which is part of a massive redevelopment. This was the reasoning behind my submission on behalf of the Forest Hill Society regarding the recent site allocations plan:

Forest Hill Society wrote:
Recent figures have shown that there will be a considerable shortage of primary school places in the next few years across the whole of Lewisham. Whilst a new primary school is being provided in the very north of the borough, the remaining areas of the borough are likely to have a shortage of primary school places. This critical factor in the growth and sustainability of local communities has not been addressed in this document.
Additional sites should be found in the south of the borough for new primary schools, or physical expansion of existing schools, to provide adequate places for all children in the borough.

We would add an additional site that should be considered in this site allocations report. Greenvale school and the site of demolished Shackleton House on Perry Rise SE23. This ex-school site could provide additional educational opportunity for residents in SE23 / SE6.


Personally I don't mind if Greenvale is rebuilt as a LEA school or by Montessori within the state sector. That discussion is secondary to the need for additional primary school places within the next couple of years.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #26
13-12-2010 09:48 PM

The discussion might be secondary but the source of funding may not be. It would be interesting if 'free schools' were given more funding and support than a local authority seeking a solution to its problems. I don't know the answer but my feeling is that this government is more keen to support new models of schooling over than increasing provision. I believe the current funding regime does not enable adequate long term planning and its that which needs to be tackled.

New schools (of the required standard) require a lot of planning and need to meet a great many indicators and generally there can be a lot of local opposition due to traffic generation both road and footfall so they are very long term projects and may not necessarily do much for local children over the next 5 years hence I would like to see other solutions being explored as well as a new school as the year on year approach to foisting portakabins and additional classes ont o existing schools cannot be sustainable approach and can compromise the education for existing pupils.

Another way of moving ahead might be to enlist the support of the Lewisham Governors Association who should be interested in the long term educational provision in the borough.

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fhmum


Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #27
15-12-2010 10:28 AM

The campaign's first newsletter is now available Thumbsup if you'd like to receive a copy email freeschoolcampaign@gmail.com

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fhmum


Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #28
12-01-2011 08:34 PM

Dear Neighbours in SE23

The Primrose House campaign for a new primary school in the area will hold an information day on Friday 21st January for all members of the community interested in finding out more. If you have a baby or pre-schooler and, like us, you're worried about the severe shortage of reception class places now and in the coming years, please come along and hear all about the alternative this group of parents is proposing.

There will be a series of presentations starting at 9am and running throughout the day until 9pm upstairs at the parish church of St George on Vancouver Road, Forest Hill. You'll have a chance to socialise with other parents who share your interests and concerns over coffee. You'll be able to ask questions about our proposal, volunteer to help or even sign our petition.

Please do come along and, if you'd like more information or to be added to our newsletter email list, contact freeschoolcampaign@gmail.com.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #29
16-01-2011 12:57 PM

Its perhaps not any great surprise that the Facebook page does not permit any comment from the public, only the selected few, however I would say here that in response to the Mirror article on the Batterseas school, in respect of selection, that the official response of this group, ie that it only competes with Montessori, misses the point. If such schools get public funding then they will be competing for that funding from state schools and the risk of a two tier system will only increase.

The disappointing and never'to be admitted' fact of life for this ConDem government is that despite Ed Balls much criticised micro management, Labour delivered a fantastic outcome for children and the education system in this country. Its not just me saying that, the results are pretty clear for all to see. I may not personally think grand projets such as as BSF were everything and I never in fact liked Ed Balls as a politician but the fact remains that in some inner city boroughs with the worst educational items, things have dramatically been turned around since 1997. I know of one particular 'sink' school on a 'sink' estate in south London whose results have been so fantastic that middle class parents are now clamouring for their own kids to get in. The situation isn;t perfect but we should not lose sight of what has worked before and continues to do so.

I don't also appreciate how the provision of an entirely new school will do anything other than tinker at the edges of current over subscription of reception places and I genuinely do not think that this alone is the answer. There are lots of factors which result in overcrowded schools with few places to offer as they are already taken by siblings, including the current recession which has reduced the general rate of geographical mobility. Ie families are staying put due to job security concerns and the little fact of not being to remortgage to move out of London and potentially up the ladder. There may yet be a prospect of the older classes being undersubscribed as a result. What might work is a split site model where one focusses on the lower age groups and the other on the older children. I myself went to a school which had to do this for much the same reasons.

I remain sceptical that a new school is not the answer to the problem it purports to solve. As you might guess I am extremely sceptical of this governments motives in the whole thing, exploiting as they do a problem in supply in order to argue for a totally new philosophy and a running down of public services.

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fhmum


Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #30
16-01-2011 09:22 PM

Our Montessori primary school will serve the children who live in the area. It will be oversubscribed so nobody will be forced to use it because of geography. Buildings are in short supply and we're not yet certain where the school will be located. Wherever it ends up, it'll be in the middle of a diverse community ethnically, socio-economically. It will be of great benefit to the children who attend, an asset to our borough and I hope a model to be followed widely across the country. Montessori is an effective, yet under-used method of teaching children and, having experienced Montessori pre-school for my first child, I wouldn't want the alternative. We have a right to choose the educational methods used to help our children learn. The Montessori choice isn't yet available. With more of our hard work, it will be soon.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #31
16-01-2011 09:40 PM

I don't really understand your first point. Assuming a common application framework will still exist, children will be allocated a place at this school in the same way they are now. Only some of us would be objecting to the educational philosophy. If this was a religious school then we would not be allocated a place there against our will but it might be difficult not to be here if it was non religious but as it would be funded by the state then we might not have strong grounds for objection and have few alternatives around as it would have soaked up available funding in the area.

As I see it still, any new publicly funded schools should follow the common denominator and not be in a position to alienate but to be inclusive of all children and be non religious. If it was Montessori then it is a matter of personal parent opinion whether such a method is commendable or not, and I would suggest that whilst many people are non plussed about Montessori nurseries in the early years when academic success is less critical and childrens learning takes a variety of forms, they might not be so willing when it comes to the primary school years. Having to send a child to a Montessori school may therefore not be a choice for some parents, but rather a result of the lack of it.

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fhmum


Posts: 37
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #32
17-01-2011 01:23 PM

Thanks for taking such an interest in the campaign. Much as I enjoy a good debate, I'm afraid I'm going to have to devote my energy and very limited time to running the campaign.

I will leave it for the parents of Lewisham to make up their own mind and, ultimately the Department for Education to approve (or not) our proposal.

In the meantime, we launched our website today which may be of interest to some forum users. http://www.primroseprimary.com

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #33
24-01-2011 11:42 PM

I would have thought that having stated this option as being the solution to our educational ills, there would be more interest in debating the issues. Proceeding with such a venture will involve a great deal more pressure and awkward questioning than could ever be found on se23.com.

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%...CH&h=4aeaf

The above is a link from the schools's facebook page. I think people need to be clear about that issue, in that Barking and Dagenham turned down an application from a Montessori primary as the Montessori teachers were not considered qualified. The latest government response seems to be to look at removing the agreed QTS standard. I do think potential supporters and the local community ought to be aware of this point. Do people want unqualified staff teaching their children? Standards of training and expectations on performance in the state sector have risen considerably over the years. Do people not want to know what they are getting and to take comfort in the fact that most teachers have achieved a certain minimum agreed standard?
Gove seems intent on relaxing a number of rules including enabling a number of ex military folk to become teachers without the full training. Does that not scream second best to you?

From a personal perspective I also do resent the campaign for this school using the baby boom and Lewisham's alleged incompetence as marketing fodder for what is really a private educational enterprise proposing a marginal educational philosophy. There is indeed a great deal of pressure on future places over the next few years, and a great deal of work to be done, but Lewisham and other boroughs are actually doing a great deal of good work behind the scenes in discussion with teachers, heads and school governors, in order to plan ahead to provide adequate schooling for our children- not sitting doing nothing as is portrayed here.

The creation of a free school in Lewisham with public funds for the few who support Montessori would only serve to contort and further confuse supply and demand and probably have a negative impact on such provision as well as competing with state schools for valuable resources. I would therefore urge parents to think very carefully before they support such a route. A brand new school of course sounds great- much better than the make do , patch it up, and mend philosophy of tacking on portakabins for bulge classes here and there, however producing one to meet all of those objectives will not do much to solve things in the next few years . Personally I will be asking the awkward questions at every opportunity, as I do not want to see my children and their peers deprived for the reasons stated above.

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Bill Tanner


Posts: 7
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #34
25-01-2011 10:00 AM

I would have thought that a group of working parents concerned enough to set up their own school would keep a pretty close eye on the educational standards it sets and the qualifications of whoever does the teaching.

I would also hope that any school whose teachers were considered unqualified would be closed down, but I don't see what bearing this has here .

And, for another thing, where do you get the idea that taxpayers should not have to fund anything with which they may personally disagree? As one wise American once said, 'a lot of them don' t like tanks. Even more don't like Congress.'

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #35
25-01-2011 10:03 AM

To be fair to fhmum, the proposal was hardly put forward as a solution to ALL our educational ills. Merely an alternative.

And I am sure that fhmum will be engaging in many debates over the coming months as the school application process/ campaign gets underway. She is only saying that she may be to busy to be on se23.com.

As Michael posted earlier, there are already many different types of schools in the state sector - I do not see why adding parent led schools is such a major change to say religous schools.

Well done fhmum for being passionate enough and driven enough to try to make a difference.

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NewForester


Posts: 379
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #36
25-01-2011 11:32 AM

According to NewsShopper, Lewisham has launched a consultation on Primary School places, but there is no sign of it on the Lewisham website.

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #37
25-01-2011 01:15 PM

Would there be additional funding for such a school, or would Lewisham's education budget just be reduced by the same amount?

Presumably at some point the government looked at the ideas behind Montessori schooling and either took on the successful ideas, if any, or decided that the current methods were better and more efficient.

I cant find any case on this thread detailing why we should be demanding a radical change to our primary schools, some of which are thought genuinely amongst the best in the country (unlike our secondary schools....)

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #38
25-01-2011 07:31 PM

The current thinking is that local authorities would have to assist in the setting up of such a school and if this is the case then it would be competing with all other schools for reduced resources, and I do not think that is right nor is it in the best interests of local children. This government has slashed the BSF programme and now it apparently wants to give money to minority interests to build new schools, probably to reduced building standards. The news yesterday showed some schools in Waltham Forest which were crying out for investment which is now not proceeding and those schools and the children have to put up with decaying conditions.That is unfair and inappropriate, however we have a government which is barking enough to do anything to prove a political point so nothing surprises me.

I dont have anything against parent promotion, just the free school model which will soak up all available funding instead of being spent on the priorities.

This campaign is very impressive but then it is led by journalists and others with connections so thats not surprising either but it does have to be said that its cashing in on the incorrect but headline grabbing premise that there is a crisis of provision ahead and local authorities such as Lewisham just aren't doing enough to provide more places and that providing a brand new school will solve the problem.
I do think that parents need to be aware that this is not necessarily the case and that they should be looking beyond this limited assessment of the situation to more wider and effective solution. Locally there are already proposals being made and negotiations under way to ensure an adequate supply of reception places in the next few years, some of which are undoubtedly of a more mundane nature but likely to be more effective.

The point about Montessori teachers is that they are not recognised by the QTS system. Thats ok in the private schools where teachers dont really have to have a PGCE or equivalent but I do not see how such an approach can be presented as sustainable or desirable to the local community. Montessori may indeed be fine in nurseries or in the private system where the children will probably go on to private secondary schools, so the kids don't have to compete, but unfortunately the world Montessori likes to create within their nurseries, or pretend exists, is not the world that most of of the community will have to live in. We need primary educational provision that enables our children to access and do well in the secondary curriculum so that they in turn can go on to excel at university and beyond.

BTW there are many teachers , Heads, parents and governors out there already who are making a considerable difference! Perhaps the passionate ought to be joining them instead of dismissing them out of hand as was the case earlier.

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Bill Tanner


Posts: 7
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #39
25-01-2011 09:01 PM

Could you please explain EXACTLY what you mean by 'journalists and others with connections?'

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #40
25-01-2011 09:55 PM

Well, the campaign manager is a journalist, is she not? And some others on the temporary governors have a lot of experience of public relations and marketing, or so I'm led to believe.

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