Call me cynical but I read this line:

As meaning that Southern will see if they can make further cuts once the ELL starts up...

They certainly don't seem to be planning to review the services before December.

I am very concerned about the Forest Hill Society suggestion that ELL trains should be cut to accomodate the continuation of overground services. Please be aware that the FHS certainly DOES NOT represent the whole of Forest Hill in this matter - some of us do actually work in the East End, City and North London and the ELL service will improve the quality of our lives greatly.
What about those of us who finish work late in the City and would appreciate a quick, uninterrupted service home?
Whilst i appreciate the concern over the cuts to late night West End, i cannot accept any petitioning for cuts to ELL services made on behalf of Forest Hill residents by the FHS.

I don't think they are advocating a reduction in services on the ELL, are they?

Red67,

I do think the FH Society would wish to see cuts to ELL services before they even start running, what we want is for the rail authorities to look at every possible way to avoid cutting trains from London Bridge.

From May next year the plans are, in the evening peak, to have 6 x 8 carriage trains on Southern as well as 8 x 4 carriage trains on ELL. This will provide Southern with only 60% of the overall capacity on the line despite more than 70% of passengers sensibly wishing to use Southern route. What does not make sense is to run more (and shorter) trains on the line that is less used, rather than the one that will be most used. Nor does it make sense to run 8 trains in the morning peak and only 6 in the evening, it just demonstrates poor planning.

We have suggested a few ways to alliviate the cuts to capacity from London Bridge. One possibility would be to stop fast trains as happens at present, or just at New Cross Gate, another possibility would be to run 6 trains per hour on the East London Line to Forest Hill so that 8 trains can be run from London Bridge, another possibility would be to change the timetable to allow for the same number of trains in the evening as in the morning (by far the preferred option from my point of view).

Some of these changes, if they are ever considered, will inevitably have negative effects for other commuters, but it is a matter of weighing up the difference between the massive conjestion on London Bridge trains with the new routes that will benefit the minority of rail passengers.

It was only last year when the DfT changed the final version of the South London Route Utilisation Strategy to include 8 trains on the ELL rather than the original plans for 6 trains. We had thought this was a positive change until we recently realised that it would mean a cut in services to London Bridge.

Sorry, I was mistaken in my last post. The plan is to reduce the even peak trains for 6 to 4, leaving only 4 x 8 carriages leaving London Bridge during the evening peak and throughout the day, and the current level of service (6 trains per hour) will only be maintained in the morning peak.

I keep getting these 8s and 6s confused. Probably because there was a time when we actually did have 8 trains in the morning peak, but only if you counted very quickly.

Hello ? I?m Tam Langley ? the Lib Dem prospective MP for Lewisham Deptford which covers the non Forest Hill part of SE23. Sorry to introduce myself mid thread but it seems more sensible to jump into a discussion that is relevant to some of the campaigns we're running.


You may have seen leaflets through your doors from me already, or met some of our local council candidates at meetings like the Neighbourhood Watch. And you may well know my friends and colleagues Alex Feakes, John Russell and Philip Peake who are Lib Dem councillors for neighbouring Forest Hill ward. I?m working closely with them on a number of campaigns, including the campaign to stop cuts in train services to Crofton Park and Honor Oak (you can sign our petitions here http://bit.ly/1Nje7p and here bit.ly/YwszA).


If you?d like to get in touch with me please do email me ? tam@lewishamlibdems.org.uk. You can also sign up for our local newsletter at http://bit.ly/YJkfP.



You?ll also probably see my partner Rob post occasionally.



All the best,



Tam Langley.

News in the latest South London Press on the letter that has been sent to the Minister of Transport, Sadiq Khan.

http://www.southlondon-today.co.uk/tn/Ne...0the%20top


With the success of recent Tweet campaigns you may wish to Tweet your opposition to rail cuts @SadiqKhan.
You can Re-Tweet my message from http://twitter.com/mjxa

Just tweeted him.

I would not bother if i was you as he [ Khan ] is my local mp and is a complete waste of space - he was of no help when i had problems getting my son into a secondary school

I'm moving to Forest Hill shortly. For work I'll need to travel regularly to offices in Peckham, Kings Cross and Kentish Town.

If I buy a Zones 1 to 3 season ticket, does it cover me for London Zones 1 to 3 including bus and tube, or does it just cover me for the rail journey as far as London Bridge?

Is there a daily ticket or Oyster top up you can buy that covers you for the kinds of journeys I need to make? I may on several days need to travel to meetings within London so a flexible travelcard or season ticket would be the best option.

Surely the real problem is that Southern is planning the cuts to our services BEFORE ELLX starts. There will be a 6 month period of hell on wheels or over crowded trains at all times of the day. Yes, the trains will be starting closer to FH and HOP, so 'might' be less crowded in the morning rush hour. The evening will be the real problem. We should ask the powers that be for a rationale for the service cuts and ask why they cannot wait until after ELLX starts services.

A Zone 1-3 season ticket covers you for all tube, rail and DLR use within the zones. Also any zone travelcard means that it's valid for ALL zones on the bus. It's one of the quirks.

Thanks for the reply - I found the information at the rail company's site difficult to understand!

I received a detailed email reply from Jim Dowd last week which noted his participation in this open letter.

He expressed his concern about the forthcoming service reductions and mentioned that he has made representation to the Secretary of State for Transport, Southern Trains, Network Rail and the Office of the Rail Regulator.

He also mentioned his contact with Sydenham and Forest Hill Societies and that the issue has been highlighted in his 2009 Parliamentary Report which apparently gets delivered to constituents (although I've not seen this).

I have used the 123 Zone annual season for a number of years. The current cost is ?1200ish, but it really costs in for me since I dont drive and use it extensively at weekends and during the week when travelling around London on business.

Plus its very very convenient to know that you can get on any service anywhere within the 3 Zones and don't have to think about tickets or cost

I have a friend who works at Dft - I was asking him about the cuts and he said it had littel to do with Dft - they don't get involved with London transport decisions other than to 'rubber stamp' them, much like the queesn rubber stamps acts of parliament - she would never say 'no'. He said that Tfl actually make all these decisions and then pins the blame on the Dft when they're unpopular because they technically have 'sign off'. He said that if you want something to change, Tfl are the ones, not Dft.

Jon, what you say could be true of decisions relating to London transport infrastructure, but is not true of timetables relating to Southern and Southeastern, whose services extend beyond London. TfL has no say in those. DfT produces the 'specification' that sets out which services Southern and Southeastern is required to operate.

And, see the latter part of post #450 for clear examples of DfT leading and influencing TfL in decisions relating to transport in London.

Is Southern cutting these services along our line before the ELL starts because of the loss of revenue along the line since TfL/LOROL took over management of the stations from NX Gate to West Croydon?

"Is Southern cutting these services along our line before the ELL starts because of the loss of revenue along the line since TfL/LOROL took over management of the stations from NX Gate to West Croydon?"

As far as I recall, there prime issue is london bridge capacity.

http://www.southwarknews.co.uk/00,news,16266,185,00.htm

Mayor Boris Johnson has finally agreed to meet with campaigners and talk through the future of the South London Line. ~ Southwark News Article