I think it was covered in the post directly before yours

That was in regards to London Bridge?

Thameslink is covered earlier in the thread, with this post: http://www.se23.com/forum/showthread.php...7#pid30837 and a few after it.

In short; yes, we will get thameslink trains in 2019.

It's a tad unfair that we should lose more services during the Thameslink works even if it's temporary when we've sacrificed two trains to LB already. Ok, the 10 carriage trains will be able to cram in all those passengers to the remaining 2tph, yet realistically you'll cram even more passengers onto the ELL trains which are now VERY popular all day. Even the Crystal Palace trains fill up by here during the peak.

Two slots will be going when the Inner South London Line (Vic to LB via Peckham Rye) is replaced with the ELL extension to Clapham Junction in December 2012, so that's already a loss of two trains per hour for Peckham customers, so where else do you free up platforms?

rbmartin,
I think we need to see how serverely our trains will be cut, but I assume that it is not off-peak where the pressure will be. I suspect that for a couple of years we will have one or two less trains in the morning and evening peak. The RUS recommended increasing the length to 12 carriages, but Network Rail are only doing platform lengthening for 10 carriages in the short term (they'll probably need to extend them again for Thameslink, but I assume that is a different budget). So there will be less capacity once they start cutting services in 2013.

In fairness, it is our line into London Bridge that can easiest absorb cuts to services, on a temporary basis, as we have the ELL (at least for people with travelcards, not Rail Only season tickets - like me). It will be a squash whatever cuts take place. But at least there will be benefits when we get the Thameslink service taking us directly to Kings X.

In the evening peak at least, those extra trains to Crystal Palace will probably be the first to go as they leave a few mins after the main train leaves.

You're right about the long term benefits of being able to travel to Kings Cross and Farringdon without changing at LB or Whitechapel in the future, although spare a though for those existing passengers who use the Wimbeldon loop line. They're losing their through services which will terminate at Blackfriars and will keep the existing trains while it seems we'll have new Thameslink trains AND the ELL!

In terms of Thameslink:

http://static.london.gov.uk/mqt/public/q...o?id=36543

poolsneighbour,
The problem is there is a lack of information about the future plans for Thameslink. I am still working from the recommendations of the 2008 RUS, which is still the most up to date official document.
There is some speculation on http://londonreconnections.blogspot.com/...s-and.html that we would not get Thameslink trains, but I think this is based on possibly wishful assumptions made by 'Pedantic of Purley' (although he is usually a reliable source of information on the London railway system).

Good to see our assembly member, Len Duvall on the case. As Boris points out in his reply, this is not a decision over which he has control, it is in the hands of DfT (the authors of the South London RUS). But I will be keeping a close eye on the next version of the London and South East RUS, which I hope will provide more details on the plans for Thameslink.

Thameslink trains are going to be built by Siemens and not by Bombardier. Does this make any difference to us?

There is still a good deal of uncertainty, and therefore much to play for, concerning the routeing of Thameslink trains once the core St. Panacras to London Bridge re-modelling is completed. There is talk in the London/SE RUS of sending the trains via Lewisham to Dartford and Hayes, thus easing congestion on the tracks to/from Waterloo East and Charing Cross.If this was the case, we would lose out as there aren't enough trains to provide a stopping service on the slow tracks via Forest Hill as well. However, the Forest Hill solution has a number of advantages:
- It would not require as much infrastructure re-alignment east of London Bridge as sending the trains via Lewisham.
- The Southern metro service pattern is a better fit for the proposed Thameslink service than the South-Eastern services.
- A 15-minute Thameslink stopping services via Forest Hill could replace (and enhance) the current Southern London Bridge-Caterham service, freeing up much-needed paths into London Bridge (and Victoria).

Time to get lobbying!

TFL draft accessibility report June 2011: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/t...report.pdf

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/c...ations.pdf

TFL’S RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE HIGH LEVEL OUTPUT SPECIFICATION FOR 2014 – 2019 (HLOS2)

These additional services, prior to the Thameslink implementation in 2019, are to be welcomed, should these recommendations be adopted.

What I suspect is that we are likely to see a reduced London Bridge service from around 2013 of 2 trains per hour in the peak, while the redevelopment of London Bridge takes place. Extending trains to 12 carriages (rather than 10 we are expecting in December) and two replacement trains to Dalston would address the removal of capacity that is likely to occur.

I'd hope by then the Jubilee line will be at full capacity now that the new signalling is in place to handle all the passengers who would be using Southern services.

5 car LO services to Dalston in the peak are welcome.

Is that bad news for Rotherhithe station? I thought it was 4 car max and couldn't be lengthened...

Selective door opening can be used on those Overground trains.

I suggested that earlier as I have known it happen on some underground trains.
Why not all 8 car trains?

8 car trains with selective door opening would mean that half the passengers would need to move through two carriages to get out.
5 carriage trains with selective door opening only required a maximum of 1/4 of the train to use the next set of doors. In a packed train this is a viable option whereas the 8 car trains is not.

Stations between Canada Water and Shadwell will only have platforms long enough for 4 carriages, but I expect they might just manage 4.5 carriages in reality for some of these stations, leaving only a single set of non-opening doors.

I wouldn't mind if they closed Rotherhithe station. You should not be able to see an underground station from the next one along. It isn't a long walk. Those arguing to keep it open should also consider the need for a new station at the German footbridge between Forest Hill and Sydenham.

I find it strange seeing the train at the next station while I am waiting at Canada Water!

Surrey Quays can only handle 4 carriages, as it's overground, compared to the other former LU stations, it may be possible to extend their platforms to 5.

Anerley Station is visible from Penge West...so what