For some strange reason the "last thread" button does not seem to work on this topic. So can I repeat my question to Tam Langley.

You appear to support the reinstatement of the South London line which is to be axed as part of the new timetable. The only way that this line can reinstated is if services along this line to LB and to Victoria are cut.

Can you clarify your position please?

This business about the LBG-VIC loop being extended to include the morning peak (unless I have imagined this)...

Looking at the timetable from December, it doesn't seem to have changed - with the first train still at 0838 (arr. 0909).

Nasaroc, far be it for me to answer for Tam or anyone, but looking at their website and petition they appear to be campaigning for the reinstatement of the proposed Victoria-Bellingham line rather than the retention of the Inner South London Line?

This is Rob - Tam's partner replying - I'm sure she'll reply later.

But from my quick look at the maps there's no relationship between the London Bridge services and the Victoria-Bellingham line.

If you have a look at this map of the proposed Victoria-Bellingham line you'll see that it goes straight to Nunhead and Peckham Rye before going to Victoria - so has no track / signalling interaction with the London Bridge service.



However Tam's much more knowledgeable than me on this - so I'll let her reply fully later.

Sorry for some reason that map didn't upload properly so here's a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South_...future.png

But it's clear from Tam's blog that support for the south London line reinstatement is very much on her mind - and this aim is being loudly proclaimed by other local parliamentary candidates.

Tam - Just make it plainly obvious would you please? Can you state clearly that you are opposed to the reinstatement of the south London line or any other service (such as the Bellingham to Victoria service) which would remove "paths" from existing services such as our own.

It just isn't possible to get "something for nothing" given the crowded state of London Bridge, Charing X and Victoria - certainly not an entire line's worth of trains. Anyone who doesn't believe this need merely look at the loss of our existing services to CX - these have been "given" to services serving more easterly parts of our own borough. If we are to get them back, somebody else will lose out. There's a limited cake and not enough to go around. To pretend that you can create new lines without a knock-on effect is useful in political terms but won't work in practice.

Can I say that this is not an attack on any political party - just a hope that candidates do not attempt to face in both directions at the same time and expect us to vote for them.

HOPRA, The Forest Hill, Sydenham and Telegraph Hill Societies will be leafletting at the stations between New Cross Gate and Sydenham next week and are looking for volunteers.

If you wish to help distribute leaflets, please PM me.

Thanks

Nasaroc - it's Rob here again.

I think you're confused about the way the lines run.

Victoria - Bellingham as a line has no interaction at all with services to London Bridge.

Tam is campaigning both for a) not cutting the existing Southern Services through Brockley and Honor Oak, and b) instituting the promised Victoria - Bellingham line.

To make it entirely clear the line from Bellingham would stop at Catford, Crofton Park, Nunhead, Peckham - and then westwards - so there's no interaction with the other services.

Here's another map that I think makes it clear.
TFL London connections map

I'm not confused about the way the lines runs. You are correct to say there is no "interaction" between our local line and either the Bellingham to Victoria service/south London line. That isn't the point.

Whilst there may be no "interaction" between the lines, the paths into mainline stations such as London Bridge and Victoria are "shared". We don't "interact" with services from east Lewisham and the Medway and central Kent areas but they've "taken" our services into Charing Cross!

You cannot support the retention or reinstatement of these two lines without affecting existing services calling at Forest Hill.

It's great to have political support but not the type of support that's undercutting our campaign.

Speaking about our campaign, please try to support the leafletting of stations just announced above by the FHS. Just half an hour spent at a local station helping to leaflet will make a huge difference.

It doesnt look like we can have it both ways. Southern have advised that they are planning to rebuild London Bridge station so that more trains can go through to Thameslink destinations and these trains should have more carriages. This is part of the over all transport strategy to increase access into London (London Bridge and Victoria are by all accounts full to capacity). They say to achieve longer trains on the busiest routes into Victoria, it requires extending platforms and signal sections so that longer trains will fit on the track. At Battersea Park this means the platform will need to be extended across the Junction that will mean that South London Line trains will have to take a different route into the Southeastern side of the station. When that happens Southeastern will operate all trains between Peckham Rye and Victoria and Southern will no longer operate this route.

When this happens London Overground will extend the East London Line to stop at all stations to Clapham Junction in the west. London Bridge station rebuilding for the Thameslink programme will start reducing the number of platforms available and so London Bridge passengers will have to change at Peckham Rye for Clapham etc.

We are going to lose our service for sure How is this an improvement?

Can't say I'm clear about how any of this will effect services to and from FH Ginger Nuts. When you say "we are going to lose our service" - what service do you mean?

The London Bridge to Victoria service will no longer run.

The actual evidence to say that "we are going to lose our service for sure" is extremely poor. Work on Thameslink will place added pressure on all existing lines to LB but I see no evidence that our own loop line will be axed.

What will help to ensure that this - or other cuts in local services - won't happen, is for politicians, and would-be politicians, to stop promising every area in south-east London new lines into Victoria and LB.

There's no evidence to suggest the London Bridge to Victoria service is going to stay. There will be consultations around the strategy - but the current thinking is to remove this service.

I remember something about the LB to Victoria loop being extended, too, but from May, I think. It was on this forum but I can't remember when.

Isn't the point that we do interact with the services from Medway over the line between London Bridge and Charing cross because we share the same route.

But the service from Bellingham to Victoria runs over a different route, so they don't interact.
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Merely to say that there's no evidence to suggest a service is going to stay is hardly a convincing argument. The loop line is there. In May, it's being expanded with extra early morning services. To be able to say that we are going to lose this services "for sure", you have to provide some evidence.

You claim that axing this service is "current thinking". Current thinking by whom exactly and what documentary or other evidence is there of these discussions?

I'm genuinely open to persuasion. If the rail authorities are already discussing this cut we need to know about this.

So please supply evidence.

Southern Customers Services department informed me that Southeastern will operate all trains between Peckham Rye and Victoria in the future and Southern will then no longer operate the Victoria route.

However, it is the expectation that the East London Line will stop at all stations to Clapham Junction. London Bridge passengers will have to change at Peckham Rye for Clapham etc.

I take this to mean that the Victoria loop that goes from LB to Victoria via Forest Hill will cease to exist.

At least the Mayor and DfT are talking.

http://brockleycentral.blogspot.com/2009...s-way.html

But Gingernuts - If you talk to a customer services department and ask them for a quick way to get from LB to Clapham Junction after May 2010, then it's quite possible that they may tell you to catch a train to Peckham Rye and get on the ELL to CJ. This would be one of a number of ways to travel to CJ - and probably quite a reasonable option given the frequency of trains and the time factor involved in travel.

It's quite another matter to deduce from this that our loop line is certain to be axed.

Do you have anything in writing linking the arrival of the ELL extension to such an outcome - or is this just your own supposition?