There is a suggestion from the always well-informed Barty on the Sydenham Town forum that the withdrawal of direct services to Charing Cross might be a temporary one - see http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.p...5683#29167

In my view, it is worth sending as many letters as possible, to underline the importance of these services and let Southern know that it is not just a minority view that these services are important. I am guessing that most readers of this forum use the evening services to Charing Cross at least occasionally, and would miss them.

Letters could be sent to:
1. Southern Customer Services, PO BOX 277, Tonbridge TN9 2ZP
2. London Travel Watch, 6 Middle Street, London EC1A 7JA
3. Jim Dowd MP, 43 Sunderland Road, London, SE23 2PS
OR Joan Ruddock MP, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA

I'm not convinced that any loss of services will only be temporary. Once Thameslink project is completed we will eventually have services into Blackfriars and possibly Kings Cross (not before 2015), but there is still capacity for the off-peak Charing Cross service, even when the station is being rebuilt.

There is a possibility that we will temporarily lose some of our peak services during the Thameslink construction. But not until ELL is running and we have 10 carriage trains minimum. However, this will not happen before 2011 and actually proves that the Charing Cross change is not being done with the Thameslink project in mind.

It is really annoying that every train at peak times only run to London Bridge. There is a train that runs to Victoria after 9pm - why cant we have at least one running earlier in the morning. There seem to be annoying assumption by everyone who plans the time tables that everyone works in East London.

I didnt know Sydenham had a direct train to Charing Cross - how come we havent?

I might be mistaken, but my understanding from the Route Utilisation Strategy is that we should get direct trains to Victoria during the morning peak as well as during the day.

All trains from Sydenham to Charing Cross stop at Forest Hill. They only run late in the evening and on Sunday.

At the present time there is a bottleneck between London Bridge & Waterloo East...particularly in the rush hours.

The RUS had proposed all trains on the Hayes line via Ladywell and some other train services that go through Lewisham would terminate at Cannon Street.

As the RUS plans were long term I assume the additional platforms at London Bridge won't cure the bottleneck?

Does anyone know if there used to be a railway line that connected Waterloo East with Waterloo main line station?

Wikipedia never lies - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Wate...ay_station:

When my dad fitted out the Wellington pub, he was told that the railway link connecting the two stations was built specially for Queen Victoria's use.

Response from Southern Railways:

If you have any questions or comments about current or future train services you can Meet the Manager on Thursday morning (20th Aug) at London Bridge station - 0730-0930.

http://www.southernrailway.com/main.php?page_id=92

You might want to ask how they can justify running trains at 17:35, 17:50, 17:54, 18:05, 18:20, 18:24, etc Why can they run a regularly spaced service in the morning but not in the evening? And will this be improved in December with the timetable changes?

When will the morning peak services to Victoria be running via Forest Hill? (as promised in the RUS)

Why are they not fighting for their passengers to have evening services from Charing Cross (after the rush hour when there is room on the network)?

Any answers you get, please post them here.

A bit pedantic and off thread but Wikipedia says of the Waterloo - Waterloo East connection

However, the bridge hasn't carried the walkway for years - I'd think at least 20. A new walkway was built years ago at a higher level and connected to the Waterloo concourse by escalators. Previously there were stairs to get up to the bridge. From the road I always think the walkway looks a bit like a high level tube train. The bridge seems to be used for storage and has Portakabins on it.

Perhaps even more pedantic but I understand that Waterloo East as a separate entity no longer exists. I overheard some tourists being told there was no such place a few weeks ago by a member of the station information staff. Its all Waterloo now.(?) So its been rebranded or disbanded then!?

Still exists with a separate station code on the enquiries website, station signs still say Waterloo East.

Andrewr,
I checked at lunchtime today and the higher level foot bridge is indeed supported by a structure on the lower bridge, directly above the Wellington pub.

Roz,
Waterloo East continues to exist and is branded as Waterloo East. Trains tell us that they stop at Waterloo East and National Rail do not run this station (unlike Waterloo mainline).

Back to the topic:
Meet the Manager on Thursday morning (20th Aug) at London Bridge station - 0730-0930.

Did anybody get a chance to meet the managers today?
I'm afraid I did not make it as I get to the office before 7:30am

I went to the Meet the Managers meeting.

This is what I discovered. The important thing to grasp is that there will be two future Southern timetables ? one in December 2009 and one in May 2010 prior to the start of the new ELR:


1. In December there will be no significant changes to our timetable to LB (6 trains per hour peak; 6 trains per hour off-peak at most other times). However, trains running from and to Charing Cross along our line will be axed. The axing of CX trains is a permanent timetable change (it isn?t a temporary change because of work at LB as some have suggested). Southern say that they argued strongly in the RUS for retention of Charing Cross services (and even for an extension of these services) and that the evidence is there in their submission to the RUS. Network Rail thought differently and awarded our slots at CX to Southeastern.
2. In May 2010 our off-peak services to LB will be cut from 6 to 4 tph but the loop service to Victoria will start earlier around 7am. Our twice hourly service to E Croydon will continue even when services are cut to 4 trains per hour. Peak hours services to and from LB will continue at 6 tph.

In addition to these service amendments, other changes will be:

1. TfL to take over stations from September 20 ? giving staffing at all stations from first to last train plus rebranding and major ?clean up? (repainting, repairs etc) of stations.
2. Extension of platforms by end 2012 to take 10 and 12 carriage trains.
3. The new date for the introduction of Oystercard PAYG is 2nd January 2010

So the upside is ? new ELR, earlier start to trains to Victoria, staffed stations at all times trains are operating, longer trains for 2013 and the eventual introduction of Oystercards. The downside is no more Charing Cross trains and off peak trains to LB cut by one third.

The Sydenham Society is organising a FUTURE RAIL SERVICES meeting at 7.30pm at the Naborhood Centre, Sydenham Road on September 17. There will be speakers from TFL and Southern who will outline the future of our local rail services and answer questions from the floor. This is an essential meeting for alll local commuters. Please attend.

From what Nasaroc says, it sounds as if complaining to Southern or TfL (e.g. at the meeting on 17 September) about the withdrawal of CX services won't be very productive, if the actual decision was taken by Network Rail. Is there any scope, even at this stage, for putting pressure on them to change their minds? How were users consulted? Are Southern's submission and Network Rail's response in the public domain?

What I'm not happy about is the fact that most people living on our route are probably not aware of any of these matters at all. It's the lack of transparency that gets me. A lot of people are going to get a nasty shock come December!

Exactly - are they going to run a 'meet the manager' for the people who might not be peak-time commuters?

The superb service direct from Trafalgar Square is really heavily used in my experience and a large number of passengers always seem to get off at FH. It's the only direct route into zone 1 - even after the ELL extension.

I think it should start a little earlier so people can get to the theatre or whatever - and continue until later!

How can we lobby for this decision to be reversed. Why don't we get consulted on these things? We do pay for the trains after all.

Robin -

For Southern's response to the South London RUS consultation see

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20do...uthern.pdf



20.5 ?Southern argue that in order to benefit the maximum number of passengers, the additional 8 Thameslink (former Southern) trains per hour should all be directed to the Sydenham line. These trains will be able to ?bounce back? to achieve intensive peak use of the rolling stock. These trains should be formed of 12 car trains which would compensate for the limited capacity of the East London Line only being 4 car trains. This proposal would enable the passengers of the Sydenham line to have the capacity and frequency required to get them to the destinations in Central London where the majority wish to travel.

This will require the Thameslink Programme track plan to change to give priority of Thameslink trains to the slow lines instead of the current fast line plan.

Sydenham line platforms will need to be lengthened to 12 cars but such a scheme may eliminate the need to lengthen platforms along other routes currently planned for Thameslink trains.?


20.4 ?Sydenham Line trains to Charing Cross. Southern has identified very significant demand to Charing Cross for travelling to the West End. All else being equal Southern would support this proposal. However, there are also real concerns about Southeastern having enough capacity and so this would need to be looked at in the round with Southeastern demand. If there was a case for Southern taking higher priority than Southeastern then rather than all the Sydenham trains going to Thameslink as proposed in the response to 20.5 above, there could be a case for a proportion of these trains going to Charing Cross and more Southeastern trains going to Thameslink.?


Elsewhere Southern has argued for 8 trains per hour peak (see 2.3), and suggested that 10 car may not be sufficient for growth and option for 12 car should be appraised (see 4.1/2/3/4/5)