b****r - expect delays on Thursday morning then!

Everytime they have these events I have to rush past them as the trains are, somewhat ironically, running late...

You may have seen this on yesterday's news but the London Assembly is consulting on overcrowding on overground trains and wants to identify 'pinch points'. I think as many of us as possible who commute should contact them. Details below:

The Committee is keen to hear from people who use overground rail to commute. Please send us your experiences - particularly around being unable to board full trains at certain London stations, and how much space is available on the trains you travel on.

Let us know by emailing our Transport Committee team at: overcrowding@london.gov.uk

or write to us at:

London Assembly Transport Committee
PP10 / 6th Floor
City Hall
The Queen?s Walk
London SE1 2AA

Is it just me, or have the trains been ridiculously bad lately? Although I'm sure this is an exaggeration, I can't remember the last time I went to the station and the train was on time. When I first moved to FH in May 2007, it used to be that the trains I caught were consistently punctual. Sometime earlier this year, it changed and the trains I caught seemed always to be 6 minutes late. Now they always seem to be cancelled "due to a fault on a train that could not be rectified".

It is hard to get a sense of a pattern from anecdotal evidence, so could I suggest that everytime your train is late you make a note of it on this thread. We can then send it to Southern in the hope that it will keep them honest and stop them telling us 90% of their trains are on time when, in my experience, I cannot fathom how they could possibly make this claim.

I'll start:

Sunday 16 Nov 2008 - 12:28 FH to LB - arrived at 13:06 - 38 minute delay.

Tuesday 18 Nov 2008 - 08:42 FH to LB - cancelled - next train was 0853, which was on time.

There seems to be an epidemic of "people being taken ill on trains" lately.

You can't move for 'em causing delays.

Southern's trick from London Bridge is to run the trains skipping HOP and Brockley and FH etc when a train is late. That way it isn't reported as late on the DfT statistics and doesn't count towards their penalty calculation.

THIS IS BECAUSE IT A TRAIN'S ARRIVAL AT ITS FINAL DESTINATION WHICH IS RELEVANT FOR PENALTY CALCULATION PURPOSES

So a train can skip out a load of stations and not be late !

GREAT BUSINESS EH ???

last wednesday, 12th november - train was delayed for 20 mins, waited ten minutes at the platform then all trains cancelled altogether due to someone under a train at new cross gate

yesterday, 17th november - 1225 delayed until 1233 ironically due to a member of staff who had been delayed on another service!

Tried to catch the 10.22 yesterday morning, but it didn't arrive until about 10.30. This of course had a knock on effect with the following two trains.

Agree about the trains being bad recently (past two months?), the morning servce used to be okay, if very busy, but lately the 8.21 never seems to be on time. Its generally at least 5 min late every morning, and as the 8.11 bizarrely seems to be on time, that means total chaos by the time the 8.21 eventually turns up with the usual knock-on effects. I cant get to the 8.11, so the earliest train I can catch is the 8.21, but lately I have been waiting for about 20 min before I can actually physically get on a train.

It drives me mad! And I dont understand why the train delays have increased recently, but I really feel they have.

Patience is a virtue.

Having said that the one think that annoys moi is when there are are problems the indicator signs imply no problem.

Many a time they have a train about 4 to 5 mins away which means MUST have gone through New X Gate but 10 mions later it is cancelled.
Surely the train had never left LB but the indicators say it has because only 4 or so mins away.

How can this happen.

The reason Southern can claim that 90% of the trains are on time is that the figures only relate to a proportion of their total services. They only have to refer to the punctuality of peak hour trains arriving within five minutes of their advertised arrival time. Peak hour trains are those on Mondays to Fridays arriving in London between 0700 and 0959, and departing from London between 1600 and 1859. So no off-peak services count at all, and neither do less popular commutes such as away from London in the morning and towards London in the evenings. Even with the peak services that do count they have got over this over the years by adding extra time onto arrival times when they produce new timetables. I can remember not many years ago all the stopping trains from Forest Hill to London Bridge were timetabled to take 12 minutes. If you look at the latest timetable practically every rush hour train into London is timetabled at 16-17 minutes! The journey hasn't got any longer but it gives them extra minutes to play with in addition to the 5 minutes that a train can be late before it is technically late!That 's why when a train is on time it often has to sit outside London Bridge for 5 minutes!

I wrote to complain to Southern about the punctuality of the commuter trains asking if there was a journey-specific refund policy similar to London Underground's and received the following response:

'Dear Shizue

Thank you for your Webform.

Please accept my apologies for the problems you have experienced whilst travelling with Southern recently; I can fully understand your frustration considering it should only be a short journey.

I can assure you though, that we are committed to providing a good service for everyone who travels with us, and are determined to minimise delays and cancellations. We record details of every delay or cancellation and this information is used to work out the best way of improving the reliability and punctuality of our trains. Roughly half of all delays or cancellations can be traced to problems with the infrastructure - in other words, tracks, signals, bridges and so on. We are working hard with Network Rail and their maintenance contractors to reduce the number of infrastructure problems. For example, Network Rail are currently replacing point motors in key locations with more reliable types that are less likely to produce a points failure. For our part, we are looking hard at the reliability of some of our trains. We have implemented a programme of driver recruitment to eliminate train crew related delays and cancellations. We are determined to not only meet but exceed the targets set under the Passenger's Charter.

As part of our commitments to you in our Passenger's Charter, we have an automatic compensation scheme for our season ticket holders. Basically this means that if we fail to meet the advertised targets for running trains on time, or for keeping cancellations to a minimum, then we give you a discount when you renew your ticket. However, in order to guard against giving un-earned discount, such renewals have to be on a like-for-like basis. Moreover, as part of this process, you will understand that we do not then give additional compensation for any individual delay.

To explain a little about how this is calculated, our achievements on running trains on time (referred to as 'punctuality') and keeping cancellations to a minimum ('reliability') are worked out every four weeks. This is then added to the previous twelve periods' figures and the average is calculated. If this average is below the set target, then we discount monthly or longer tickets if they are renewed within the following four weeks. The discount is 5% for each category (punctuality and reliability) and 10% will be given if both are below target.

Our results are published on our Passenger Charter posters, which are always displayed at stations.

Once again, I am sorry for the inconvenience you have been caused, but I hope you will continue to travel with Southern so that you will witness first-hand the improvements we make.

Regards

William Henry
Southern Customer Services'

Naturally I instantly checked their performance targets. Unfortunately, they hit them. Because the moment rush hour is over their trains are back on track. If you look at their live departure boards on the website, after about 9.45am ish, they all start being on time up to 4.30pm - 6pm where they go all screwy again.

Great if you want to travel at 2.30pm on a Wednesday afternoon then!

Last night - 18:36 left at about 18:51 - 18:51 was delayed (don't know when that left) and the 19:05 left practically empty!

I used to time my departure from home in a morning to get a specific train but there hasn't been much point lately. Just leave when you're ready!

I was on the 19:05 yesterday and it seems pretty packed to me. I had to go quite far down platform 15 before I could get in the doors.

Perhaps we should have a drawn out theological discussion on the existence of passengers. Many Southern Railway staff appear to be non-believers despite all scientific evidence to the contrary

I got on the second carriage and shared it with about ten others!

The so-called 09.22 is always late, but I think it comes from Victoria and those trains are often delayed. Maybe that explains the delays to the 08.21 and 10.22?

The 0821 has never run on time. It's more the train's name, like "Jimmy", than an actual indication of what time it may come.

Jimmy?

Maybe that is the way forward, giving all the trains names instead of times. Be just like Thomas the Tank Engine!

Ah, here he comes now that loveable old rogue Jimmy, always late but you have to smile...

I am so grateful that I now largely work from home and can reminisce about the joyful days of commuting from HOP to London Bridge. Those who still have to do it have my sympathies as I sit in my jammies supping my first coffee of the day...especially when 'Jimmy' is late on a cold morning.

On a rare occasion of using a commuter service BD arrived at London Bridge tonight at 1920 assuming that as the trains ran every ten minutes to HOP and FH he'd get one at 1925. For the first time in his life he found that the 1925 (actually 1924) ran fast to Sydenham. Can this be right? As this was delayed, he assumed that the 1935 would also be delayed and so used another route.

Is it a regular thing for trains to run non-stop to SE26? Do we need to do anything about it?? There are of course ones that do it to Forest Hill, leaving our poor friends in HOP to walk back or get a train back.

I personaly think the trains are great, they are about every 10 minutes from London Bridge and I nearly always get a seat even in rush hour, the express trains are great, they are slow because even though they don't stop untill forest hill they are stuck behind the train in front, and when the east london line is done it wil be amazing.

I have to admit that starting to walk to Forest Hill in the mornings has completely altered my perception of the service.

Compared to Honor Oak Park, the trains are more frequent and less busy, and you stand a chance of getting a seat. Still not great (I do wonder where the poster above tends to board the train and what time they travel at) but substantially better.

I've said it before and I will doubtless say it again, I feel sorry for those trying to board at Brockley on a busy morning.