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Trains to/from Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park
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loca


Posts: 67
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #1
22-01-2008 02:55 PM

Is it me, or are these trains getting busier and busier now that the East London Line is closed. No matter what train I get I still have to stand and sometimes have trouble even getting on.
The same on the way home from London Bridge, yesterday's train the 1836 was late and lots of people didn't even get on it.

Do we have to tolerate this for the next 2 years?

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Ghis


Posts: 321
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #2
22-01-2008 03:00 PM

I was commenting last Friday that it was not too bad as I had expected worst after the line closure but this Monday and this morning even the 7am trains were busy.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #3
22-01-2008 03:13 PM

Jim Dowd, our MP, has already raised a similar problem in the House of Commoms. Apparently people waiting for trains at HOP & Brockley cannot get on the trains to London as they are already full when they arrive at the station.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #4
22-01-2008 03:18 PM

Dont get me started on this. We came back from holiday the other day and got the train from Gatwick to FH!!
7am is a bad time and some commuters are so rude!

So many trains heading to London Bridge, but NONE stopping between East Croydon and London Bridge. Its a complete joke. Once upon a time people living in the sticks complained there was no train service, now it seems like a reversal of that.

Not that I use trains much.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #5
22-01-2008 04:49 PM

Snazy Wrote:
Dont get me started on this. We came back from holiday the other day and got the train from Gatwick to FH!!
7am is a bad time and some commuters are so rude!

So many trains heading to London Bridge, but NONE stopping between East Croydon and London Bridge. Its a complete joke. Once upon a time people living in the sticks complained there was no train service, now it seems like a reversal of that.

Not that I use trains much.


Travelling home from Gatwick I recommend getting the first train to East Croydon and then the first train to Norwood Junction and changing there so that you can pick up the services from West Croydon. It is annoying to change twice but it is the quickest method. Alternatively get a cab from East Croydon, you know you deserve it after a long night flight.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #6
22-01-2008 04:51 PM

michael Wrote:
Travelling home from Gatwick I recommend getting the first train to East Croydon and then the first train to Norwood Junction and changing there so that you can pick up the services from West Croydon. It is annoying to change twice but it is the quickest method. Alternatively get a cab from East Croydon, you know you deserve it after a long night flight.



Yup thats what we ended doing Sad
As for a cab. If it was another time of day I would have. But in the rush hour I would rather be under my own steam.

We are off again in a few months, this time its drive and hotel at the airport, as we usually do.

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NJD


Posts: 12
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #7
23-01-2008 01:56 PM

This morning was really bad. Couldn't get on 07.45 and just about got onto 08.03 - which was of course late. How about compensation for late trains from Southern? I'd say that it's late about 60% of the time. It's getting ridiculous. Does anyone know if there is an active campaign going on about this, other than through the MP? I'd be happy to help. It's such a bad way to start the day.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #8
23-01-2008 02:23 PM

As we found out last year, the reason why season ticket discounts for p. poor performance were no longer applicable was because trains were - apparently - no longer late, despite no noticeable improvement, by the expedient of adding a few minutes to the timetabled arrival time at London Bridge. Voila - it's now 'early'* for an eighteen minute trip.

The problem is I don't see any means of tackling Southern on this. The mechanisms are toothless and as we can see, easy to subvert.

I think we'll have to hang on until the Overground and hope that LUL service standards apply. (Don't laugh - the compensation scheme is actually far better than for the railways).

* 'Early' and 'punctual' in railway English differs from standard English in that a five minute delay is built in. If something is only five minutes late, then - well - it isn't.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
23-01-2008 02:24 PM

The 7:30 was cancelled this morning but luckily I get the 7:20. I almost always get a seat but the last few mornings were busier than normal. Things will get a bit better when the weather improves and the fair weather cyclists get on their bikes. But I think the overcrowding is getting so bad around 8am that the earlier trains are beginning to feel the effects.

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davidl


Posts: 180
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #10
23-01-2008 02:31 PM

NJD Wrote:
This morning was really bad. Couldn't get on 07.45 and just about got onto 08.03 - which was of course late. How about compensation for late trains from Southern? I'd say that it's late about 60% of the time. It's getting ridiculous. Does anyone know if there is an active campaign going on about this, other than through the MP? I'd be happy to help. It's such a bad way to start the day.

Have a look at the Passenger Focus website for information on what you can do about delayed trains. Given the short nature of the journey it's unlikely that anyone in our neck of the woods will be eligible for compensation and as HTG points out above, thanks to a bit of clever timetabling the train company no longer loses out on season ticket revenue.

The chances of getting a seat appear to be diminishing as people distribute themselves on to earlier/later trains in my experience too, Michael. Where 8-8.45 was busy before, anything from 7.15 to 9.15 appears to be standing room only from HOP.

Personally I'd just like more (and longer) trains. With seats (not the crazy rolling stock which appears to be made up of decommisioned buffet cars) And in less than 2 and a half years. Doesn't seem that much to ask, but I am pessmistic about the chances of things getting any better in the short term. As HTG says, we just need to grit our teeth and hang on until the Overground arrives. Problem is that in the short term there probably isn't anything in it for the train company.

In the meantime one small thing Southern could do it to attach straps or handles for the standing passengers to hang on to - not sure that they have any incentive to do so, though.

For what it's worth (trying to look on the bright side), I think that the customers are doing what they can in the circumstances - people seem to be moving into the aisle a lot more, and generally by the time the train gets to HOP and Brockley there's not the same crowding concentrated on the doors.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #11
23-01-2008 02:32 PM

Agreed, the service from East Croydon to FH is very poor.
However the trick of changing at Norwood Junction is not valid (on Saturday's anyway) as this service runs just a few minutes before the FH service.
So you end up waiting for the same train, but just further up the line.

And yet it is a reasonably good service TO Croydon from FH if West Croydon is also acceptable.

Those ELX keenies need to realise that having a split London destination will give the same problem: an excellent service to London if you are not too bothered which Underground station you interchange at, but a half service coming back.

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billham


Posts: 115
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #12
23-01-2008 03:55 PM

Thankfully I no longer have to use these trains on any regular basis though I have done the HOP to London Bridge daily cattle truck at various times in the last 20 years.

However, and maybe I am being stupid here, I don't see why the closure of the East London Line would dramatically change the numbers of bodies getting on before HOP/Brockley. Surely these people would previously have been getting the trains anyway and changing at New Cross Gate whereas now they continue to London Bridge? I can see more of an issue coming the other way and in my travelling days I certainly dreaded the journey out of London Bridge much more - even when I waited till nearer 7 in the evening than 6. Are the Forest Hill trains the busiest out of LB, or does it just seem that way. I always seemed to be looking with envy at what seemed much less crowded trains on other platforms as once again I squeezed into the (normally) 4 carriage joke of a service!!

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
23-01-2008 04:48 PM

It would seem to be sensible to increase the number of carriages on the mainline trains until the ELL opens.

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Laura


Posts: 1
Joined: Jul 2006
Post: #14
23-01-2008 05:46 PM

Have to say I had Billham's thought too. Although in SE23 I usually walk to get the train from Catford Bridge, which also links up to the ELL at New Cross, but haven't noticed it getting significantly busier since the new year. I've only used HOP a couple of times to commute but stopped because I couldn't bear the crush.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #15
23-01-2008 05:51 PM

I feel like there have been more late or cancelled trains to LB lately. The 8.53 was always pretty reliable, but lately seems to get delayed or cancelled quite a lot, so there are more people to get on than there would normally be. And if you get just one cancelled train then the dreaded four-carriager... Sad

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dannyspic


Posts: 1
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #16
23-01-2008 07:02 PM

I work for the trains dont all booo at once pls,

But increasing the number of carriages past 8 is not poss on the mainline, this is not cos southern dont want to this is cos the most carriages the platforms can take is 8. It would need network rail to extend them on the whole route. They are tight like a duck's **** and wont pay out. So its not going to happen


Sherwood Wrote:
It would seem to be sensible to increase the number of carriages on the mainline trains until the ELL opens.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #17
23-01-2008 09:01 PM

I still don't understand why there are quite often trains with only four carriages at busy times.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #18
23-01-2008 10:39 PM

I meant to 8 carriages.

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grahamw


Posts: 58
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #19
24-01-2008 09:44 AM

It was hell this morning at around 9... the 8.53 was cancelled creating a backlog of people - I pity the people at HOP, Brockley and NCG - a lot of people just couldn't get on the train!
I was thinking how dangerous it is. On a tube train at least there are lots of things to hang on to, but the train companies seem to somehow be in denial that people actually have to stand up, and so don't provide anything to steady yourself..
Maybe an on-line petition?

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #20
24-01-2008 09:50 AM

Define late - yep, the timetable trick has worked wonders for the stats, which unfortunately do not count people who are unable to get on trains. Punctuality is based on a train arriving, not people. If this would change, then Southern would have to pay attention to people actually get on to the train. Email campaign??

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