SE23.com - The Official Forum for Forest Hill & Honor Oak, London SE23
Online since 2002  -  10,000+ members

Home | SE23 Topics | Shops & Services | Wider Topics | Offered/Wanted/Lost/Found | Advertising | Contact
Geddes Hairdressing & Barbering Studio One Armstrong & Co Solicitors


Post Reply  Post Topic 
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »
Anyone know about local planning permission in the area.
Author Message
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #1
20-01-2008 11:48 PM

Hi guys, newbie here.

Just a quick question.
I am unfortunate enough to live on Church Rise next to the collapsing house, some might know it.

Anyway, its finally being demolished and once land filled will be left for an apparent 6 months.
In the meantime im sure the developers will be submitting planning permission, so I wondered if anyone knew where I can find detail on this, and so I can make sure I dont miss the opportunity to view it as early on as possible.

I would hate to think that something inappropriate would replace the lovely victorian house that was destroyed.



Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
   
Find all posts by this user Reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #2
21-01-2008 12:31 AM

yes, I've been watching it for a while and saw this view today. Unfortunately the camera is in need of reconstructive rather than simply cosmetic surgery, so no pictures.

If they apply for planing permission, it will go up on the Lewisham site (http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/Planning/)

There is a site that supposedly monitors all applications in your area, and I subscribed some time ago. I have only had 1 or 2 alerts, so I'm not sure if my area is too small, too quiet, or it doesn't work, but you could try:
http://planningalerts.com/

Good luck!

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #3
21-01-2008 10:42 AM

Ah ha Robert, we meet again (if im correct)

Thanks for that mate, much appreciated. I have been getting more and more snaps of it, but sadly the deconstruction started while I was in the Caribbean Sad So I missed the top coming off.

Will check out your links now.

Lets hope for some good to come of all this.

Ironic or what but the same developer have also bought a house on Waldram Park Road and Sunderland Road too now.... God help Forest Hill eh

robwinton Wrote:
yes, I've been watching it for a while and saw this view today. Unfortunately the camera is in need of reconstructive rather than simply cosmetic surgery, so no pictures.

If they apply for planing permission, it will go up on the Lewisham site (http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/Planning/)

There is a site that supposedly monitors all applications in your area, and I subscribed some time ago. I have only had 1 or 2 alerts, so I'm not sure if my area is too small, too quiet, or it doesn't work, but you could try:
http://planningalerts.com/

Good luck!

Find all posts by this user Reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #4
21-01-2008 11:03 AM

you may be right - facebook?

Are they the fancy black van people; something estates? Oh dear! I've seen them about to convert the large house on WPR

I got a few photos of the early stages of the building coming down on my flickr photostream, but they were just quick ones (I'll try to upload the rest later)

I see that they are recycling the materials though, bringing it down brick by brick and putting them on pallets to take away and sell on I presume (too much to hope that they'd use them for the new construction)?

Find all posts by this user Reply
grahamw


Posts: 58
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #5
21-01-2008 11:27 AM

I may be wrong, but I thought you also needed planning permission for substantial demolition... you may wish to check with Lewisham whether your next-door developer has permission (or needs permission) for this.

If you live next door to the site, the planning authority should consult directly with you on any adjacent development. They have an obligation to do this, and also to post a public notice (usually A4 laminated sign) in a prominent place (usually tagged to a lamp post next to the site) informing public of application pending a decision.

There is also Health and Safety regulations covering building works, including demolition, called CDM (construction design and management) regulations. If you feel that anything unsafe is going on with the demolition, you can get in touch with the H+S executive who can close a site down if it is unsafe (for workers or public).

If the demolition involves changes to a party wall (wall that you share with the neighbour) or changes to any retaining structure on or near the boundary of your property, the developer will also need to have a 'Party Wall Award' in place under the 'Party Wall etc Act 1996'. Also any new foundations, retaining structures or excavations on or near your boundary will require an award to be in place. The developer has to pay for your party wall surveyor to negotiate this on your behalf if required (or you can agree it yourself if you broadly agree with what they're doing).

Find all posts by this user Reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #6
21-01-2008 11:55 AM

grahamw, this building was a lovely detached property on three floors (plus roof?). The demolition was probably ordered by the Council after they had to intervene when the builders undermined the foundations and the whole thing started collapsing inwards.

of course, why we should trust a developer to build something new of value when they manage to sc**w up the redevelopment so badly, I'm not sure.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #7
21-01-2008 12:37 PM

I understand that planning permission is required for the demolition of a domestic property, but not an industrial property.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #8
21-01-2008 01:10 PM

Rob, facebook indeed mate Smile And your blog.

Info for those not in the know about this place, the pictures from the mounts of earth taken out, through to the arrival of the police from the 999 call, right up to the present day can be found here...
http://gallery.csoc.co.uk/thumbnails.php?album=33

With regards to planning permission for the demolition, I believe concent was given very quickly on the grounds of the house being unsafe, and partially collapsed. Not fit for repair.

Yes Rob, brick by brick, I can hear them crashing about as I type Sad
According to Pat they bricks are being sold at 65p each, so they are not storing them as far as I know.
The company are Earlsfield Estates or something, and are currently working on the house on Waldram Park road, one up from the house on the corner of Waldram and Church Rise.

Re Party Wall notices, none were ever submitted or issues as far as I know, so the council say. The site is now a hell of a lot safer than it was. My communication with Lewisham council about the whole show has been long and complicated.

The last time a planning notice was put up, it was posted on the front door of the house, with the external fencing preventing you from actually being able to read it. Im expecting something equally as snide this time. However with no building this time, I guess the only place will be the external hoarding.

Just popping out now, big crash just come from next door.

Find all posts by this user Reply
grahamw


Posts: 58
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #9
21-01-2008 01:44 PM

wow, looking at photos, that's some sc**w up!! How on earth did they manage to do that??

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #10
21-01-2008 02:08 PM

grahamw Wrote:
wow, looking at photos, that's some sc**w up!! How on earth did they manage to do that??


Dig, dig keep digging.... oops, bit much there lads.. Oops the house has fallen down.

Some thing like that

Short version.

Greedy developer buys house in need of repair for ?900k, gets greedy and against planning permission decides to build a basement flat. Digs out the entire foundations, poorly underpinning it.
Neighbour stops me one afternoon and says.... "look"

I call 999, police arrive and close the road, evacuated us for just under a week.
House continues into its own foundations. 120 tones of concrete pumped into the basement, and structural scaffolding put up to make safe.

5 months later, the demolition has started.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #11
21-01-2008 04:36 PM

The signs of another Earlsfield in progress maybe?



Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
       
Find all posts by this user Reply
robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #12
21-01-2008 04:43 PM

wait until you seem the plumes of black smoke and 10 foot high flames, then you'll know for sure

how many weeks' worth of burning was it on Church Rise? It got so bad I thought the whole place was coming down ... in the end it did.

Find all posts by this user Reply
blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #13
21-01-2008 05:02 PM

Are there rules for what (if anything) you are allowed to burn in back gardens? And would there be a distinction between domestic and non-domestic? It sounds like this developer is ripping out furniture and household fittings and burning it instead of taking it to a commercial rubbish tip. There's also the question of what type of materials are being burned and whether it would be acceptable to burn them in a residential area.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #14
21-01-2008 05:13 PM

robwinton Wrote:
wait until you seem the plumes of black smoke and 10 foot high flames, then you'll know for sure

how many weeks' worth of burning was it on Church Rise? It got so bad I thought the whole place was coming down ... in the end it did.



Indeed, its was MONTHS of burning rather than weeks. I was starting to wonder what else there was left to burn, until I saw their tipper dropping stuff off from another site, to be burnt.

Fire Brigade came out about 3-4 times in the end until they were officially told NO FIRES !
The last one being one of the builders putting a propane cylinder on the fire. Needless to say the Fire Brigade received numerous calls of an explosion... Sad More of their time wasted.

Blushingsnail, indeed there are laws and bylaws about these matters, however these particular developers rely on "charm" I think its called. There are time restrictions and material restrictions, however some of the fires were rediculous is size, totally out of control, and left to burn over night. Which is when I would tend to call the Fire Brigade out.

Then of course there is their damage to other houses property, demolishing fences that did not belong to them, causing stupid amounts of damage to the pavement, and the fire hydrant (sp) The list is endless.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #15
21-01-2008 05:16 PM

Other examples,....

The amount of earth dug out from beneath the house. Hard to work the picture out, but the fences (whats left of them) are 6ft, and the mound was big enough to drive a digger on top of.
http://gallery.csoc.co.uk/displayimage.p...=12&pos=12

Trying to find some of the images of the fires now

Find all posts by this user Reply
ForestGump


Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #16
21-01-2008 08:06 PM

From the original application December 2006.

Quote:
2) The applicant be advised that all construction work should be undertaken in accordance with the "London Borough of Lewisham Code of Practice for Control of Pollution and Noise from Demolition and Construction Sites", or such codes as are applicable at the time that the proposed works are carried out, available from the Environmental Health Office, 2nd Floor Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, Catford, London SE6 4SW Tel No. 020 8314 6789


In the July 2007 application to create basement flats, where did all that earth come from that's in the photos attached to the application?

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #17
21-01-2008 09:19 PM

They obviously ignored the compliance notice for starters.

Thats SOME of the earth that came from under the house. The rest was out the front, and still being removed at the time of the picture.

As for the application for basement flat, apparently they were told BEFORE they even started working on the house they must NOT touch the basement or develop it.

However when they got caught out for digging it out, they had to officially apply, just before it started to collapse. Strange that.

ForestGump Wrote:
From the original application December 2006.

Quote:
2) The applicant be advised that all construction work should be undertaken in accordance with the "London Borough of Lewisham Code of Practice for Control of Pollution and Noise from Demolition and Construction Sites", or such codes as are applicable at the time that the proposed works are carried out, available from the Environmental Health Office, 2nd Floor Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, Catford, London SE6 4SW Tel No. 020 8314 6789


In the July 2007 application to create basement flats, where did all that earth come from that's in the photos attached to the application?

Find all posts by this user Reply
ForestGump


Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #18
22-01-2008 09:50 AM

Here are some more 'Earlsfield Estates' conversions that are on the council's planning website.

11 Dartmouth Road, above and behind Winkworths
136 Devonshire Road
47 Beadnell Road, Crofton Park
16 Musgrove Road, SE14

Find all posts by this user Reply
blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #19
22-01-2008 03:50 PM

Lewisham's Code of Practice for control of pollution and noise from demolition and construction sites here: http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/P...cument.htm

Section 4.2.1 states "Burning of materials on the site will NOT be permitted."

Section 4.2.2 states ?The contractor shall take all necessary precautions to prevent the occurrence of smoke emissions or fumes from the site plant or stored fuel oils for safety reasons and to prevent such emissions or fumes drifting into residential areas.?

The Lewisham Council department that deals with this is the Pollution Control Group, 2nd Floor, Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, London SE6 4RU,
tel: 020 8314 6789.

Find all posts by this user Reply
Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #20
22-01-2008 04:09 PM

blushingsnail Wrote:
Lewisham's Code of Practice for control of pollution and noise from demolition and construction sites here: http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/P...cument.htm

Section 4.2.1 states "Burning of materials on the site will NOT be permitted."

Section 4.2.2 states ?The contractor shall take all necessary precautions to prevent the occurrence of smoke emissions or fumes from the site plant or stored fuel oils for safety reasons and to prevent such emissions or fumes drifting into residential areas.?

The Lewisham Council department that deals with this is the Pollution Control Group, 2nd Floor, Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, London SE6 4RU,
tel: 020 8314 6789.


Excellent work guys, many thanks for all the info Smile

Find all posts by this user Reply
Pages (2): « First [1] 2 Next > Last »

Friends of Blythe Hill Fields


Possibly Related Topics ...
Topic: Author Replies: Views: Last Post
  Sky phone/internet outage in local area FoHoNewbie 2 1,534 11-03-2016 06:12 PM
Last Post: rshdunlop
  Planning Application: M&Co to become a Morrisons Local? edpaff 141 80,453 09-09-2015 04:42 PM
Last Post: michael
  Planning Permission 28-30 Tyson Road Johnc 0 1,787 21-09-2009 07:11 AM
Last Post: Johnc
  Conservation area, planning and ... the pools? ForestGump 3 2,716 17-06-2008 02:36 PM
Last Post: NewForester