My mistake, children are still less welcome in pubs than on buses, but I'm sure that the usual suspects can correct this and show that children are even less welcome on buses as in pubs.

Lol! I think we should start a 'Forest Hill - Can it be London's first child free post code?' tough & cheek thread.

So this has been an Anti Children Thread?Darn
and I thought it was Anti Large Childrens Vehicles on Buses thread and before someone misreads that sentence.No I dont mean Large Children but Large Prams.LOL.

I am a father and Uncle to many whom I love to bits but I still hate oversize Vehicles on Buses and will continue to do so until buses are changed to cope with oversize vehicles which I cant foresee in the near future.

So There.

I agree , I am not anti children either , believe it or not I was one once.

This is about the sometimes agressive and rude behavior of a few of the adults supervising the youngsters.

Not sure this can get any further and the poor 176 driver in question seems to have been forgotten.

Let us all try to be Polite at all times on and of buses.

Londondrz wins the award for common sense with regards to buggies. That's all I was asking for.

they are not oversized, they are exactly the size required. The consistent attack (not just by you) on young mothers doing anything with their children in public is getting out of hand.

The fact is this thread was initially about the problems women and children have getting on buses, it has been turned into 'how dare they demand such rights...what rights...it wasn't like this in my day...they should learn to ride a horse and cart, that's what we did in my day...we shall fight them in the sandpits and in the cafes...'

I'm fed up with mothers being told that they are doing things wrong, that their children, buggies and breasts are a nuisance, and that the older generation did a better job. I don't accept that it is true. And being a father to a 30 year old does not qualify you as an expert on child transportation in 2010.

And what about the rude behaviour of the bus drivers, the other passengers, the stupid things said by certain people who object to my child playing in a park, and the aggressive way mothers and children are criticised on this site? I'm sick of it.

Goodness sake Michael, now you're doing a Roz by going OTT on Brian's comments of which he's perfectly entitled to as much as the liberal brigade on here who on the whole have put their points across sensibly.

Not all of us think every parent is ignorant when it comes to transporting kids, we even have one member who has demonstrated common sense when it comes to using his buggy, however look at the buggies practically, the larger modern buggies are not designed to go through the front door and the narrow passageway to the wheelchair area, which does cause problems especially at peak times.

It's a hard rule to enforce as no government wants to be seen to putting rules against parents of young children who have a hard task in itself before even getting out of the house.

Incidentally I would apologise to Roz on one point, there is a shared allocated area for buggies and wheelchairs....on the Northern Line!

Thanks for that RB.

I am NO LIBERAL. TG

The sad part about SE23 is that I sometimes wonder if it isnt just that

an extra mouthpiece for the Lib/Dem party

Such a local asset should be used as a means of voicing ones opinions regardless of political persuasion.

Oh dear. I think people are entitled to their opinions and sweeping statements come from all quarters.

I also think it's good to have a balance of opinions - I only got involved with this thread in response to the claim that it's mainly those without buggies who are creating access problems for wheelchair users - and I have witnessed otherwise. So I'm not going to let something remain unchallenged if I have seen evidence to suggest that's not a fair comment.

I have a right to an opinion as much as anyone else but I do think some people are being very selective in their quotes and getting things out of proportion. Ultimately, we all benefit from a bit of consideration from others.

And Michael

My son is 18 and I am retired so get that one around in your head

So I can remember when folding buggies were the norm

Are you the interlocutor on the SE23 site

If so be one or do you control who says what to whom.

Oh and by the way your clock needs putting back

I can confirm from intensive observation this evening that both buggies and wheelchairs can be safely accommodated on the P4 in a shared allocated area. There is permitted space for one wheelchair only per bus which leaves room for potentially three single buggies or two larger buggies, or even a side by side double buggy, a good sized single buggy and a wheelchair.

I call that diversity.

I think we should take a leaf out of Hary Hill's book.

"Which is more deserving for bus spaces". "Is it wheelchair users or baby buggies?"

"The only way to find out"


"FIGHT!!!!!!!"


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What about a family with 2 teenagers and 4 large suitcases? Where do these go?

By Taxi to the station.LOL

Its the same ole question

If the Bus is full then the driver wont let them on

If it isnt full then its first come first serve

Once on they cant be ejected.Or can they?

The wheelchair would go where the headrest is. On the P4, the refurbished single deckers have had the fold-up seats removed from that area which would discourage passengers from sitting next to the buggy.

There's always the risk that Selkent put those smaller buses out (same as the 356) where you can squeeze 2 buggies if you're lucky or 1 wheelchair and a small buggy.

There were definitely 4 fold up seats in the whole area on the P4 this evening including next to the headrest.

Blimey, it's turning into a bus spotter forum.

Michael,
you should know that we live in very tolerant SE23 although it seems that those advocating it have forgotten its meaning. (One can find it here http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tolerance)

So how about some tolerance for parents? (as they are the enemy number one on this thread)

Brian,
I don't know where you live, but I see a lot of good behaviour all around. I see a lot of dedicated parents, a lot of fathers taking children out which was not the norm when you or I grew up. I have experienced youth on the busses who are willing to help. On the last few trips my toddler was falling asleep and young guys with a hooded tops (would you believe it) have helped me get the folded buggy off the bus. I simply asked for help. You probably agree that I deserved help, as I was considerate to fellow passengers and folded the buggy in the first place. But had I had a monster buggy which was full of shopping would I deserve your help in moving out of my way to get on / off the bus? Your answer will show you how tolerant and open minded you are.