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university fees - how to avoid
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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #1
13-10-2010 01:04 PM

immigrate to scotland for the 3 years prior to university and apply to a scottish uni! alternative, live somewhere else in the EU for three years prior to uni - then you are considered an EU student and the scottish government pay your fees!

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #2
13-10-2010 01:25 PM

What a stupid system, so kids in england are at a disadvantage, do they not also get free prescriptions in Scotland

I also think the same thing is in place for Wales & N.I, yet I may be wrong

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #3
13-10-2010 01:46 PM

I doubt whether all of that will last much longer though.

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michael


Posts: 3,217
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #4
13-10-2010 02:09 PM

I suugest that Forest Hill becomes part of West Lothian rather than West Lewisham. Free education and subsidies from those rich people in London.
Time for a vote on devolution from England with a deep fried mars bar for each vote for Scotland.

?O flower of Scotland?....

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #5
13-10-2010 02:22 PM

They get things free because they are to tight to pay for it themselves

Why should my taxes pay for them

" There Always Be An England "

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #6
13-10-2010 04:16 PM

Surely as we are one country this discrimination could be illegal. I wonder if anyone has tried the legal approach.

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michael


Posts: 3,217
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #7
13-10-2010 04:39 PM

ForestHillier Wrote:
Why should my taxes pay for them


Most readers of this forum would have been educated when university education was free. Most users of this forum went to university, did you ForestHillier? So students today are entitled to ask why they should pay for they education when all the government ministers and most of the shadow cabinet paid nothing for their university education.

Then there is the fact that graduates earn more than non-graduates. If the average graduate earns an extra 10k per year over a working life of 40 years, and this income is taxed at 30% (income + NI, not counting higher rate tax), then they are paying an extra 120k in tax over their working life, more than enough to compensate the state for the cost of their education. Some earn more than others, but the lowest paid graduates work in teaching, nursing, and other state funded jobs, it is a double saving. For students going into the private sector in particular, they are helping to boost the GDP of this country much more than most non-graduates.

The sad fact of any of these schemes is that, contrary to what politicians of all colours tell us, the cost of a degree does put people off going to university. Every time the cost of education increases we lose a bit of fairness in Society. But at least Vince Cable has abandoned the stupidest plan for university funding - the graduate tax. All fees/loans must be paid off eventually.

The best method of paying for universities is a few pence on higher rate of taxation.

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #8
13-10-2010 05:29 PM

The best method of paying for universities is a few pence on higher rate of taxation.

a few pence here for education, a few pence there for nhs, a few more pence for schools, and a few more for child benefit and welfare etc etc.

where do you intend the 'few pence' to stop - where will the incentive be to earn more if all the extra you earn just goes in tax.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #9
13-10-2010 07:33 PM

Michael
I did not go to University ( I expect you would say you could have told that from my posts ).
When I left school in 66 only about 5 to 6 % of school leavers went to University.
Subsidising the education of a small % was not so much of a problem. Paying for 40% plus is.
I think subjects in short supply should be free or cheaper possible than Mickey Mouse subjects.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #10
14-10-2010 08:29 AM

Michael - no I did not go to Uni, I left school at 16 and apart from first 4 weeks after that, have been in employment ever since, [ yes one of the lucky ones ]

Brian - yes it was much harder in the old days to get into uni, when it was only the privilaged, it from 1997, it was made more open for the normal kids - so to speak to get in, think now it will revert back to the old days

Mljay - yes increased tax, yet do the kids of today not become the people of tomorrow, i.e pay our pensions, become doctors, lawyers etc

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #11
14-10-2010 10:55 AM

Mljay - yes increased tax, yet do the kids of today not become the people of tomorrow, i.e pay our pensions, become doctors, lawyers etc

Yes, I agree that the kids of today are the future.

My point was that it is easy to say, just increase tax a few pence on higher rate tax payers to fund this....and then when something else worthwhile comes along, like say funding healthcare, increase tax a few more pence....

Look how the removal of child benefit from higher rate taxpayers caused an outcry (effectively the same as an increase in tax)!

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #12
14-10-2010 10:58 AM

Hardly high earners - over 44k per annum, well nor for living in London if you have children, plus the Child Tax Credit will go for nearly all in April 2012

Where else can you get income if you dont get it from tax ???

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #13
14-10-2010 11:06 AM

Two of my good friends got to Uni in 68 and both from very poor backgrounds.
They got full backing from the British State. It was not only so called affluent who got to Uni.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #14
14-10-2010 11:13 AM

That proves EVERYTHING, then.

Of course, had you been better off, 32 of your good friends might have got to university.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #15
14-10-2010 11:25 AM

I said two close friends , many others also went to Uni.

Someone made a suggestion that all persons who had been to Uni since the war could be invoiced now . Sounds a good idea.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #16
14-10-2010 12:31 PM

I think currently there is a good chance that the majority of graduates will never earn enough to pay back their loans - there are not enough higher paying graduate jobs to go round.

I'd like to think one day we will get a progressive government that will encourage manufacturing/research in the UK and we will not be able to get enough well educated people.
But while we are governed by a series of knuckle dragging, corporate dominated, philistines then the future doesn't look too bright.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #17
14-10-2010 07:07 PM

Setting the precedent of bringing in retrospective fees/taxes is potentially dangerous. Why stop at those who attended university after all? Or require that child benefit to be repaid? Or stop NHS dentistry and reclaim the private cost (or has that one already happened given the bills I seem to end up with for a simple hygienist appointment?)

How would you differentiate between those who went when there were full student grants and no fees? Those who had student loans but no fees? And what about those whose family situation at the time would have got them reduced fees under new rules?

The problem is that, especially in London, higher-rate tax payer does not necessarily equal well-off particularly for those who live alone and don't have a dual income. I'd love there to be some 'London weighting' in all tax allowances to reflect the higher cost of living.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #18
15-10-2010 01:25 PM

Looks like things are going to get a whole lot worse

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11550619

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #19
15-10-2010 01:48 PM

An upside to fees may be that students value education more and may take it more seriously. Plus many universities will have to raise their game in order to attract students and show how they offer value for money.

I was an overseas student, thus paid fees, when university was 'free' to UK students. Warning: I am going to make a generalisation, but I felt at the time that many overseas students could be found in the library - making sure that they got a good return on investment, and many UK students (and a few overseas scholarship students!) took things a little less seriously.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #20
15-10-2010 02:02 PM

Maybe mljay - yet the overseas students i see at the Uni near the Elephant dont appear to be going all out to learn

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