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Cost of Primary School Education.
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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #1
28-09-2010 11:35 AM

I hope this is not contentious just wondered if others as surprised as me.

I yesterdays Daily Telegraph said that HMG pays Primary Schools GBP6k a year per pupil.
Which is per year per class ( even if you only have 30 per class , not 40 as in my day ) GBP 180k.

I assume the teacher gets about GBP 30k and there are % share of caretaker , janitor , lollypop lady , etc. Buildings a one of costs ( which may not even be included in these costs ).

Where does all the money go?

This is not an attack on Primary Schools just a question as sounds a lot to me. I accept I am not an expert on education and may be missing some major costs.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #2
28-09-2010 11:48 AM

Horniman Budget

Page 10 has got the budget breakdown. Mostly staff costs with very little to spare.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #3
28-09-2010 11:50 AM

Horniman Primary that is. With about 200 pupils it does seem that it works out to about 6k per pupil.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #4
28-09-2010 12:32 PM

Thanks for your quick response to help my ignorance of these matters.

From looking at accounts seems about GBP700k out of GBP 1.200 k is for teaching staff.

For 200 pupils which given the very generous 30 to one class would be
7 teachers .
Cannot believe costs of employing a teacher GBP 100k.

Anyway not a subject I know much about just thought figure of GBP 6k per pupil very high

Thanks again for your kind help

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #5
28-09-2010 08:25 PM

There are 7 main class teachers but also teaching assistants and other specialist teaching staff. Not sure if the budget has to cover the other costs of employing staff beyond the salary they see (NI contributions etc).

Inner london primary teacher salary range is 26,000 to 35,568 with long standing teachers potentially being able to rise to about 43,600.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #6
29-09-2010 12:38 PM

Thanks for explanation.

I know at Primary School we had one teacher per class , usually about 35 plus pupils and no back up or other teachers and two thirds of my class
St Barts 60 passed the 11 plus.

I accept times are changed but people should not complain money not being spent on education.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #7
29-09-2010 01:56 PM

Oh bring back the old days, we used to get up 30mins before we went to bed, walked 40miles acroos moors and had a lump of coal for tea and kids today say they have it hard, they dont know their born

Yes Brian, times have changed, have you been into a school lately, some are almost falling down they are so bad

If we dont educate the young, then where will tomorrows doctirs, dentist, lawyers etc come from ??

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #8
29-09-2010 03:09 PM

I was trying to be constructive

My primary school was Victorian and very cramped and , as I mentioned , the results were excellent.

Of course we need good schools , all I was saying is that the ratio of teaching staff to pupils seems to have increased dramatically. Assuming this produces educated pupils then excellent.

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #9
29-09-2010 03:12 PM

Yes I know Brian, I was having a laugh you, I also went to school when there were 30/40 per class [ in the 60,s & 70,s ]

Maybe we have had to easy over the years amd the cuts when they come will be a welcome to the real world for some yet I dont think we should, if possible, have major cuts to the police & NHS, sorry for going of topic slightly

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michael


Posts: 3,216
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #10
29-09-2010 03:14 PM

Foresthillier Wrote:
...used to get up 30mins before we went to bed, walked 40miles acroos moors and had a lump of coal for tea and kids today say they have it hard, they dont know their born


You had it easy! We used to dream of a lump of coal.

Quote:
If we dont educate the young, then where will tomorrow's doctors, dentist, lawyers etc come from ??

India, Pakistan, Nigeria, Romania, Poland, Bangladesh, Iraq, Turkey, etc, just as they have been doing increasingly for the last 50 years (thank goodness, otherwise we would have virtually no economy left).

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ForestHillier


Posts: 490
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #11
29-09-2010 03:17 PM

Very true Michael, hopefully that will shut up people who complain about us having to many immigrants, as without them, we would have virtually no services at all and no NHS, so big thanks to them

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #12
29-09-2010 04:12 PM

Thanks F Hillier . I agree with your comments also about immigrants.
I have always said we should welcome skilled immigrants who can do jobs that our system seems unable to train in enough numbers.

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michael


Posts: 3,216
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
29-09-2010 04:38 PM

You have also said: I do trust that if any children fail to get a place it is the recent immigrants who suffer first.
With a welcome like that...

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #14
29-09-2010 05:08 PM

Michael
You have a good memory. My two statements are not in conflict.

If the schools cannot accommodate all pupils then surely priority should be given to parents who have been here longer and paid their taxes.

I would imagine most countries in the world would have the same attitude. Infact can you point out any country that does not have this policy.

Hopefully situation will not arise as all children cab find places.

Not sure what that has to do with original post.

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michael


Posts: 3,216
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #15
29-09-2010 05:25 PM

Most Western democracies try hard to find school places for all children, even if some have to travel more than a mile to get to primary school. I would be interested to know if there are any democratic countries which prioritise school places based on how many years or generations a family has lived in the country - I think most people would see this as discrimination. The best way to integrate immigrants to our society is not to stigmatise their children and place them in a few 'sink schools' - these are short-termist policies of only the most extreme in British politics.

State education is not based on how much tax you have paid, it is about educating future generations to pay our pensions and make their own contribution to our country.

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